By: David Blatner
December 16 2007 • 7:25 PM
A Designer’s Guide to InDesign and XML
xmlbook
Now, even a 300-page book such as this can’t discuss every issue related to XML, but it’s far more on the subject than anything else on the market (though Olav Kvern and I did include a small chapter on XML in our book Real World InDesign). More importantly, this book will go a long, long way to making XML accessible to designers and production folks around the world.
One of the best things about this book is that it not only gives you all the required conceptual underpinnings, but it also provides real step-by-step lessons. Plus, you can download its lesson files from Peachpit’s Web site to follow along! Wow.
David, I’m afraid the deafening silence to this news is indicative of us InDesigners’ interest in XML. The XHTML/Dreamweaver export keeps me happy, and XML can go jump in the ocean.
Well I don’t quite understand XML. I don’t know how I could use it. Is it worth learning to save 30 minutes of work a week? I would love to learn it. Implement it and so forth. But I would be afraid that if I had to leave the InDesign files in the hands of another designer could they manipulate them with XML. It’s very much a grey area to me and I just can’t justify learning it at the moment until I know more about it.
Thanks for the link anyway and it’s good to know the book is available should I choose to pursue that avenue. But for now, I’m all wrapped up in InDesign.
I’ve placed an order for this book, as I find myself lacking background in XML. Using XML in InDesign is one thing (tagging, etc), knowing what the structure behind it is, is a second thing. Hope this book will give some more insight.
Klaus, there’s no doubt that the XHTML export is useful, but it’s certainly not a replacement for XML. But the three comments above convince me that we really need to do a podcast on XML: What it is, why you’d want to use it (or why you wouldn’t), and the basics of how to get started.
XML is an extremely important technology for the publishing world. Even though many (perhaps most) InDesign users don’t need to use it, if you don’t know about it, or don’t know how to use it, then you can’t take advantage of it when it does make sense.
That would be very kind of you David if you did so.
Think product folders, updated prices etc. If this sort of information is in XML, the correct data can automaticly flow in the right frames you’ve ‘tagged’ in InDesign on your page. There are other plug-ins for this kind of work that mostly combine a database and XML connected to InDesign. Again the principles of what XML is or how to work with it in InDesign aren’t that difficult, but the XML ‘language’ itself and what you can ‘tweak’ in the code is almost a bit like programming (well it is to me). That last part I find very hard (but then again: I have no understanding of HTML either!). So maybe this book can make me understand more.
I have a very good understanding of Basic (I got a Spectrum 48k when I was 4, it still works by the way, I replaced the membrane, but that’s about it), so if it’s that type of coding then I’m off to a flyer.
I have very basic HTML to be honest. I learned it once and did a website with just html code, then I discovered dreamweaver and how that codes everything for me. So I basically just had to lay it out. Which I prefer doing.
Still I’m fascinated now, and which comment I make I make a step closer to buying. Perhaps if this podcast goes ahead I might be tempted into some more.
You might want to listen again to podcast #32 where we interviewed Cari Janssen about a project she recently completed, an extensive directory of Australian vineyards. She’s a regular designer like you and I … not a programmer .. yet as she explains in the podcast, she found XML to be a HUGE help with the project, helping to reduce production time down to 15% of what the previous issue took.
Or you could read the transcript if you don’t mind missing Cari’s cool Australian accent in the interview. She begins talking about the project about halfway through the episode.
I respect what Klaus and Eugene (@1 & 2) had to say about this topic, but the moment I saw this post I thought of a friend who had been freelancing for nearly 15 years until she went to work with a large publishing company nearby…she has gone from designing to being up to her ears (and, I suspect, close to tears) in XML workflows. They persuaded her to join the company specifically so she would bring design sensibility to their new automation path. It sounds like this book would be a perfect adjunct to the swamp she’s traversing, and I’m going to let her know about it!
Hi David
I have been using XML for the last 15 years and what I find very interesting is the larger publishers need to repurpose content. So for all those designers out there, get to know XML, as this will become an very important part of any production workflow. Yes, I agree, it does not look pretty, and yes, it can get complicated, but if you are serious about the future of your publications knowledge then XML will have to part of your workflow. There are more and more large publishers that are approaching me asking how they can introduce XML from source, before InDesign, as they want versions of their publication to be streamed into multiple workflows. Take the example of a book on birds, this is traditionally done in print only, but now the same content is being delivered via mobile phones o subscribers, then there is another one on travel tips, also needs to be in hardcopy, web and mobile phone, and there are many such examples. At lot of companies are talking asset managements and CMS, and the only ay to store the test in these solutions is XML. So XML is here to stay. Interestingly did you know that InCopy is one of the few XML editors, it saves all of its files in XML, great for this type of workflow. Also InDesign Snipperts, are pure XML. Good to see that there are books on XML for InDesign, looking forward to reading this one from James and Cathy. Good luck.
I bought this book: A Designer’s Guide to Adobe InDesign and XML. However, I can’t find the companion files for the projects. Has anyone been able to locate the companion files and if so, where are they. (Yes, I did register the book.)
Jay, I agree that the Peachpit site doesn’t make it easy to find these files. Here’s a link to the page that has the supplementary files. You have to create an account there and “register” the book first.
I just received the XML book - I agree with David. Incredible and very presentable. Wonder if the author used InDesign to create the book because I’m dying to know how he made the run-ins work (with the Chapter number alongside the Chapter title) in the TOC and how he integrated (spot-colored) annotations with figures Fig 4.7 on Pg 104? Both features are easy with Adobe FrameMaker but not exactly obvious with InDesign CS3 (well, at least to me).
I’ve just spent the most wonderful weekend reading this book and implementing the gems it contains. I can’t find contact details for the authors anywhere on the web, but if you’re reading - thank you, thank you. You’ve saved me at least a couple of years of trial and error. An utter bargain. I run my own book publishing company and I think I’m almost more excited about your book than my own! I’m recording my growing use of XML (in the form of the book trade’s standard, ONIX) through screen grabs at our blog if you’re interested - http://www.snowbooks.com/weblog .
Definitely on a par with the RealWorld InDesign books which I rate higher than any.
Seems to me there is an error on page 7: the closing should be and NOT !
I’m in the process of reading this book as well. I just started chapter 6 so for those who have already finished the book let me know if my question gets an answer. When do I use XML and when do I use Data Merge? The author makes it sound like XML is the way to go but I don’t receive any data in an XML format. It all comes to me as a csv file, so I’d have to write my own xml and dtd, right? Should I go through the trouble of learning how to convert these in excel (assuming that’s even possible)?
Leah, you make an excellent point: When to use XML and when to use something like datamerge. As I said back in Epidosde 67, my rule is basically: If there’s any way to avoid XML and still be happy, do it.
XML is great technology, but if yo have csv or tab-delimited text that you’re trying to format, then Data Merge or em software’s InData is just so much easier and straightforward.
Hello all. Thanks for the kind words. Our book on XML was a labor of love. I discovered XML a couple years ago when I had to do a catalog project. I could not get the data out of the database. I tried data merge with horrible results. Basically, one should only use data merge for small one-off projects that you will never see again. XML is best for live projects where you need to update data or repurpose it to other documents or to the Web.
The great thing about XML is that it is very flexible and allows you to use it for a variety of purposes. We tried to touch on all the areas in which you can use it.
As for export to XHTML, you really have to see how InDesign can create amazing Web content using XML and XSLT.
Besides explaining how to use XML, the main goal of our book was to reduce the “fear factor” people have of those poor three letters.
Jim Maivald, Hi. Can you tell me if your book explains how to create XML from a CSV or TXT file. I was hoping my Mac OSX Excel could do this but it seems it can’t. This is how my upcoming print catalogue data will be supplied, and this is where I get stuck. How do I get this csv or txt databases into XML format?