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	<title>Comments on: Adobe Acquitted of InDesign Copyright Violation</title>
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		<title>By: Stephen Tiano</title>
		<link>http://indesignsecrets.com/adobe-acquitted-of-indesign-copyright-violation.php/comment-page-1#comment-476031</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Tiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indesignsecrets.com/?p=2998#comment-476031</guid>
		<description>Having worked both as an employee and freelance as a proofreader for Science Typographers from 1978 thru about 1991, and ... STI having failed at bankruptcy reorganization owing me and countless others a great deal in wages (only a coupla hundred dollars in my case; but way more for others, including--I was told--near 6 figures in one guy&#039;s case), I can only say that it sounds as if the chickens have come home to roost, once and for all, to Mr. and Mrs. R., STI&#039;s (and, later, Brookhaven Typesetting&#039;s) principals.

While I really don&#039;t wish ill on anyone, I remember enough late and bounced paychecks, and our medical insurance being cancelled unbeknownst to us--when I was still an employee (NY State&#039;s Dept. of Labor, I believe, reached some kind of settlement with them that didn&#039;t do us workers any substantial good)--while Mrs. R. drove her white Corvette to feel badly for them.

Imagine how surprised I was to find this item detailing their loss to Adobe on appeal. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having worked both as an employee and freelance as a proofreader for Science Typographers from 1978 thru about 1991, and &#8230; STI having failed at bankruptcy reorganization owing me and countless others a great deal in wages (only a coupla hundred dollars in my case; but way more for others, including&#8211;I was told&#8211;near 6 figures in one guy&#8217;s case), I can only say that it sounds as if the chickens have come home to roost, once and for all, to Mr. and Mrs. R., STI&#8217;s (and, later, Brookhaven Typesetting&#8217;s) principals.</p>
<p>While I really don&#8217;t wish ill on anyone, I remember enough late and bounced paychecks, and our medical insurance being cancelled unbeknownst to us&#8211;when I was still an employee (NY State&#8217;s Dept. of Labor, I believe, reached some kind of settlement with them that didn&#8217;t do us workers any substantial good)&#8211;while Mrs. R. drove her white Corvette to feel badly for them.</p>
<p>Imagine how surprised I was to find this item detailing their loss to Adobe on appeal. <img src='http://indesignsecrets.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Old Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://indesignsecrets.com/adobe-acquitted-of-indesign-copyright-violation.php/comment-page-1#comment-476001</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indesignsecrets.com/?p=2998#comment-476001</guid>
		<description>Lets&#039; not forget blogs such as designsecrets.wordpress.com!

In addition to copyright laws, which are aimed at protecting intellectual property,  there are anti-trust laws, which are aimed at protecting consumers (and the market in general) from monopolies.



Although both copyright laws and anti-trust laws are &quot;internationally observed&quot;,  small, backward countries tend to get away with faking merchandise, and big, advanced countries tend to get away with charging consumers &quot;whatever the market will bear&quot; -- and the more they dominate the market as a monopoly, the more they can charge.

One of the big problems here, I think, is that Bill Gates and Microsoft are widely regarded as the devil incarnate, while Steve Jobs and Apple are regarded as saints.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets&#8217; not forget blogs such as designsecrets.wordpress.com!</p>
<p>In addition to copyright laws, which are aimed at protecting intellectual property,  there are anti-trust laws, which are aimed at protecting consumers (and the market in general) from monopolies.</p>
<p>Although both copyright laws and anti-trust laws are &#8220;internationally observed&#8221;,  small, backward countries tend to get away with faking merchandise, and big, advanced countries tend to get away with charging consumers &#8220;whatever the market will bear&#8221; &#8212; and the more they dominate the market as a monopoly, the more they can charge.</p>
<p>One of the big problems here, I think, is that Bill Gates and Microsoft are widely regarded as the devil incarnate, while Steve Jobs and Apple are regarded as saints.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Perry</title>
		<link>http://indesignsecrets.com/adobe-acquitted-of-indesign-copyright-violation.php/comment-page-1#comment-475998</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indesignsecrets.com/?p=2998#comment-475998</guid>
		<description>Adobe could try to get their legal costs paid by Brookhaven. In the past, courts typically awarded legal costs only to successful plaintiffs (those suing). Since a 1998 Supreme Court decision called for a more even-handed treatment, courts have become more willing to award legal costs to whichever party wins, particularly in cases like this where the win came at summary judgment, indicating that Brookhaven never really had a case. 

I don&#039;t normally tilt in favor of deep-pocketed corporations, but given the number of harassment lawsuits taking place today, something needs to be done and what is more apt that forcing these thugs to pay. In the case of &#039;class action&#039; lawsuits that are little more than ploys to enrich lawyers, the lawyers should be forced to pay.

That more even-handed approach still isn&#039;t just. First, like patent trolls, it&#039;s likely that the entity suing them, this Brookhaven, was deliberately set up to have almost zero assets, so it couldn&#039;t pay if it lost. It is still possible to get past that to those who&#039;d have grown rich if Adobe had chosen to settle out of court, a process called &quot;piercing the corporate veil.&quot; But it isn&#039;t easy.

Second, as I like to tell people, our entire legal system is run of, by and for lawyers. It&#039;s quite happy to award lawyers who win their fees, although not at the expense of the opposing side&#039;s lawyers even though it is often they who manufactured the dispute. For IP law that&#039;s $300/hour up. But the courts have yet to deem it necessary to award the actual winning party, which is often an individual or small company, for their costs. A just system would pay all those involved in a dispute on the winning side rather than just their lawyers. As I said, our legal system looks after the lawyers.

And by my lights, the lawyers ought to be at the end of the line when money is dolled out. Lawyers are getting rich while the rest of us suffer. I saw that a few weeks ago when I attended a few receptions at a big convention for international trademark lawyers in Seattle. The world economy may be hurting, but law is still flush with cash. 

I also have some experience in this matter. In 2002, lawyers representing the Tolkien estate sued me in federal court, alleging copyright violation for my book-length Lord of the Rings chronology. The lawyer on the other side certainly grew rich. Based on what other lawyers told me, he probably billed the Tolkien estate around $250,000.

And for all that money, he lost badly. The arguments I made for fair use at the summary judgment stage were so telling, the estate bailed out, offering to settle out of court rather than face almost certain defeat. The judge later confirmed their fears by dismissing their lawsuit &quot;with prejudice.&quot;

What&#039;s the justice in a system that pays a losing lawyer so handsomely and yet doesn&#039;t permit a penny to be paid to an individual like me who, acting as pro se, defeats him?  By any standard, I was the better lawyer. Even car mechanics have to actually fix a car to get paid. Why not treat lawyers the same?

You can always tell when a profession is in decline by the stress it places on credentials. Lincoln had less than one grade of formal education, yet he became an excellent lawyer and a great president. I know at least one highly visible, well-paid, Harvard-trained lawyer today that I wouldn&#039;t trust to handle a parking ticket.

--Michael W. Perry, Seattle, author of Untangling Tolkien</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adobe could try to get their legal costs paid by Brookhaven. In the past, courts typically awarded legal costs only to successful plaintiffs (those suing). Since a 1998 Supreme Court decision called for a more even-handed treatment, courts have become more willing to award legal costs to whichever party wins, particularly in cases like this where the win came at summary judgment, indicating that Brookhaven never really had a case. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t normally tilt in favor of deep-pocketed corporations, but given the number of harassment lawsuits taking place today, something needs to be done and what is more apt that forcing these thugs to pay. In the case of &#8216;class action&#8217; lawsuits that are little more than ploys to enrich lawyers, the lawyers should be forced to pay.</p>
<p>That more even-handed approach still isn&#8217;t just. First, like patent trolls, it&#8217;s likely that the entity suing them, this Brookhaven, was deliberately set up to have almost zero assets, so it couldn&#8217;t pay if it lost. It is still possible to get past that to those who&#8217;d have grown rich if Adobe had chosen to settle out of court, a process called &#8220;piercing the corporate veil.&#8221; But it isn&#8217;t easy.</p>
<p>Second, as I like to tell people, our entire legal system is run of, by and for lawyers. It&#8217;s quite happy to award lawyers who win their fees, although not at the expense of the opposing side&#8217;s lawyers even though it is often they who manufactured the dispute. For IP law that&#8217;s $300/hour up. But the courts have yet to deem it necessary to award the actual winning party, which is often an individual or small company, for their costs. A just system would pay all those involved in a dispute on the winning side rather than just their lawyers. As I said, our legal system looks after the lawyers.</p>
<p>And by my lights, the lawyers ought to be at the end of the line when money is dolled out. Lawyers are getting rich while the rest of us suffer. I saw that a few weeks ago when I attended a few receptions at a big convention for international trademark lawyers in Seattle. The world economy may be hurting, but law is still flush with cash. </p>
<p>I also have some experience in this matter. In 2002, lawyers representing the Tolkien estate sued me in federal court, alleging copyright violation for my book-length Lord of the Rings chronology. The lawyer on the other side certainly grew rich. Based on what other lawyers told me, he probably billed the Tolkien estate around $250,000.</p>
<p>And for all that money, he lost badly. The arguments I made for fair use at the summary judgment stage were so telling, the estate bailed out, offering to settle out of court rather than face almost certain defeat. The judge later confirmed their fears by dismissing their lawsuit &#8220;with prejudice.&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the justice in a system that pays a losing lawyer so handsomely and yet doesn&#8217;t permit a penny to be paid to an individual like me who, acting as pro se, defeats him?  By any standard, I was the better lawyer. Even car mechanics have to actually fix a car to get paid. Why not treat lawyers the same?</p>
<p>You can always tell when a profession is in decline by the stress it places on credentials. Lincoln had less than one grade of formal education, yet he became an excellent lawyer and a great president. I know at least one highly visible, well-paid, Harvard-trained lawyer today that I wouldn&#8217;t trust to handle a parking ticket.</p>
<p>&#8211;Michael W. Perry, Seattle, author of Untangling Tolkien</p>
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		<title>By: James Fritz</title>
		<link>http://indesignsecrets.com/adobe-acquitted-of-indesign-copyright-violation.php/comment-page-1#comment-475997</link>
		<dc:creator>James Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indesignsecrets.com/?p=2998#comment-475997</guid>
		<description>I am going to make a new website called &quot;indesignsecretssecrets&quot; it will be a trashy rumormill that covers all of the celebrity indesignsecrets news stories. Looks out Mr. Rankin, the paparazzi are coming to your door, we know you had an affair with Ms Univers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am going to make a new website called &#8220;indesignsecretssecrets&#8221; it will be a trashy rumormill that covers all of the celebrity indesignsecrets news stories. Looks out Mr. Rankin, the paparazzi are coming to your door, we know you had an affair with Ms Univers!</p>
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		<title>By: Rufus Deuchler</title>
		<link>http://indesignsecrets.com/adobe-acquitted-of-indesign-copyright-violation.php/comment-page-1#comment-475996</link>
		<dc:creator>Rufus Deuchler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indesignsecrets.com/?p=2998#comment-475996</guid>
		<description>Oh, and you could sue Anne-Marie for her InCopySecrets... ;-) Nice read David, thanks for sharing.
-Rufus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and you could sue Anne-Marie for her InCopySecrets&#8230; <img src='http://indesignsecrets.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Nice read David, thanks for sharing.<br />
-Rufus</p>
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		<title>By: joecab</title>
		<link>http://indesignsecrets.com/adobe-acquitted-of-indesign-copyright-violation.php/comment-page-1#comment-475995</link>
		<dc:creator>joecab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://indesignsecrets.com/?p=2998#comment-475995</guid>
		<description>The secret is ... it&#039;s actually raw fish!!! SHHHHH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The secret is &#8230; it&#8217;s actually raw fish!!! SHHHHH</p>
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