Comments on: Broken Ligatures

By: Vectorbabe

Vectorbabe — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:15:48 +0000

This sounds like a font substitution problem. In the Print dialog box, go to Graphics and make sure Download PPD fonts is chosen.

By: Jana B

Jana B — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:09:28 +0000

I think I’m having a broken ligature problem but only when I print a book. The glyph ‘?’ is printing in certain ‘f’ combinations. If I print the pages one by one my ‘f’ combinations are fine. Any ideas how I can get my book to print properly?

By: Klaus Nordby

Klaus Nordby — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:19:05 +0000

Oy, my links just died — why they heck can we use angle brackets for some tags, but not for link?!

Thes were my links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeX

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX

By: Klaus Nordby

Klaus Nordby — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:17:24 +0000

I know nada about the actual code buried InDesign, and hadn’t heard of XeTeX either, but I have read in several places that much of the excellent justification engine inside ID is based on algorithms in Donald Knuth’s TeX typesetting program, which is used a great deal by scientist and mathematicians to typeset articles with heavy-duty mathematical requirements. See: . I have a friend who’s a quantum physicist, and he composes his writings in LaTeX, the GUI frontend for TeX. I have briefly tried LaTeX. It has built-in templates for typesetting scientific articles, and it produces quite nice typesetting — though I think it can’t handle advanced OpenType glyphs. But I would hardly trade in my copy of ID CS3 for LaTeX! Still, it’s interesting to compare these semi-competing technologies. See:

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:45:13 +0000

I agree with Saunders, Nixon and Pinske in that the ligatures should only be where they’re needed, and that it looks fine with one line having them and one not, just like a small variation in spacing is fine as well in justified text. Personally, I wouldn’t allow InDesign to space my characters enough to break them, but that’s another issue…in this case ID is doing the right thing.

By: David Blatner

David Blatner — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:42:28 +0000

I think the important pieces of this puzzle are:

1. When you allow positive letterspacing in justified text (in the Justification dialog box), or when you manually letterspace text (via tracking or kerning), ligatures get turned off.

2. There really should be a control in InDesign, as there has been in QuarkXPress for over a decade, to control how much letterspacing should break apart a ligature. There are many fonts with which adding 1 or 2 units of letterspace should definitely not break the ligature. (That is, the result of the two characters so close together just looks far worse.)

By: Eugene Tyson

Eugene Tyson — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:25:23 +0000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XeTeX

By: Sandee "vectorbabe" Cohen

Sandee "vectorbabe" Cohen — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:18:49 +0000

> What kind of engine does InDesign use for detecting ligatures? Is it the XeTex engine or their own, I don’t know a lot about it?

Hell, you know more about it than I do. I didn’t even know there was an XeTex engine. (And would have sworn it was something you find on a NASCAR.)

By: Eugene Tyson

Eugene Tyson — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:12:32 +0000

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Just thought I’d share that, if you hadn’t seen it before, it’s been going around for years though.

Sandee I agree, readability is the most important thing, and if you can notice then so will others. What kind of engine does InDesign use for detecting ligatures? Is it the XeTex engine or their own, I don’t know a lot about it?

By: Sandee "vectorbabe" Cohen

Sandee "vectorbabe" Cohen — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:01:07 +0000

Eugene,

I don’t take your post as “dissing” me. (And I understand your reluctance to commit to anything early in the morning.)

I think the problem, as I said before, is simply the mixture of ligatures on and off in the same paragraph. That’s the kind of thing that jars on the reader.

Ligatures are only added to text to make it easier to read. The combination of the end of the f and the dot of the i, when too close together make a jumble of dots in the printed text. A ligature just makes it easier to read.

Obviously when the letters are tracked or spaced out, the end of the f and the dot of the i don’t collide that much making the need for the ligature less vital.

That’s fine. But I believe the reader’s eye is bothered by the inconsistency. That’s what I would like to fix.