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This article is from July 11, 2008, and is no longer current.

Create Perfectly-Curved Hanging Indents

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An InDesign user e-mailed this question:

Can I create bullets on a curved vertical line in InDesign without needing to do it manually? I’ve found that I can create the bullet but I can’t set the text in the style sheet to flow along the curve with the same space after each bullet (I have to set a specific distance between the bullet and text which doesn’t work on a curved path).

Here’s the example he sent (I blurred out the company name):

Looks pretty, doesn’t it? But as the user found, if you try to curve hanging bulleted or numbered lists in InDesign the “normal” way—by overlapping a curved shape and turning on text wrap (Window > Text Wrap) set to Wrap Around Object Shape—you’ll quickly get frustrated, because the spacing and indents go all wonky.

[[Editor’s Note: In Adobe InDesign 2023 and later there is an option that fixes the problem that is described in this article… You can choose “Honor Text Indents in addition to Texts Wrap” in the Composition panel of the Preferences dialog box.]]

Case in point, here’s an auto-bulleted list curving around an ellipse’s text wrap:

Doesn’t look much like the first example, does it?

But it actually is quite easy to achieve the correct effect in InDesign:

All you need to do is follow two rules: First, use an Em Space, not a Tab, as the character following the bullet (or number, or whatever you’ve got hanging out there). If you’re creating the hanging indent manually, you can insert an em space after your hanging character from the Type > Insert White Space submenu. If you use the Auto Bulleted or Numbered List feature in InDesign CS2 or CS3, you can specify an Em Space for the field labeled “Text After” in the Bullets & Numbering dialog box or equivalent panel of the list’s paragraph style:

(The ability to change the “Text After” character is a new feature in CS3. In CS2 you’re limited to the tab character in auto bullets. You can use auto bullets to get you started, but to get this tip to work you’ll have to convert the bullets to text and then replace the tabs with em spaces, as explained below in comment #7.)

The second rule is that you can’t rely on text wrap—you actually have to curve the side of the list’s text frame itself. You can do this with the Pen tool if you want, but I find it easier to just drag out an empty shape with the Ellipse Tool over the list’s text frame, as though I were going to use Text Wrap (I usually turn on Text Wrap for it anyway to get a rough idea of the curve) to force the left indent to curve.

Make sure that the shape forcing the curve is above (stacking order-wise) the text frame with the list. Then select both frames with the Selection tool and choose Object > Pathfinder > Subtract, which subtracts the top shape from everything underneath it, effectively “punching a hole” in the text frame and changing its shape.

Here’s the sample before, using an Em Space and a text-wrapped ellipse (I’ve converted the auto bullets to text so you can see the em space’s hidden character):

And here’s the same text after I subtracted the ellipse’s shape from the text frame shape with the Pathfinder command:

This solution even works for single text frames with multiple columns, like so:

You can use the Direct Selection tool to edit the path of that interior circle—the hole punched into the frame—if you want.

Anne-Marie “Her Geekness” Concepción is the co-founder (with David Blatner) and CEO of Creative Publishing Network, which produces InDesignSecrets, InDesign Magazine, and other resources for creative professionals. Through her cross-media design studio, Seneca Design & Training, Anne-Marie develops ebooks and trains and consults with companies who want to master the tools and workflows of digital publishing. She has authored over 20 courses on lynda.com on these topics and others. Keep up with Anne-Marie by subscribing to her ezine, HerGeekness Gazette, and contact her by email at [email protected] or on Twitter @amarie
  • Martin Braun says:

    Interesting and relevant. I didn’t even know the situation, but I’m sure, I will need this solution one day. Thanks!

  • Aaron Riddle says:

    Great tip relevant to all who do a good amount of publication layout work. Thank you for broadening our knowledge once again!

  • Christa says:

    Hey thanks! I’ve had this situation before and ended up using the spacebar to make the text follow the round shape :/

  • James says:

    Excellent tutorial, Anne-Marie. I’m curious how you got the second/third line of text in each bullet to line up beneath the first letter of the first line of text? Did you use the Command + / keyboard shortcut?

  • Anne-Marie says:

    Hi James, they’re just normal hanging bullets–the first couple examples use InDesign’s auto bullets paragraph formatting (first introduced in CS2 I think). Then before I took the rest of the screen shots, I selected the text and chose Convert Bullets to Text so users could see the hidden characters, specifically the em space separating the bullet from the text. When they’re “normal” text they have a left paragraph indent and a negative first line indent, they usual way to create hanging paragraphs.

  • Karla says:

    Hi Anne-Marie,

    I’m afraid my CS2 doesn’t appear to give me the option anywhere of inserting an ‘Em Space’?

    I’ve spent ages trying to figure out just how to get all lines to line up underneath each other when bulletted.

    Any ideas?

    Regards,

    Karla

  • Anne-Marie says:

    Karla, if you’re doing this manually (not using auto bullets) in CS2, click an insertion point in the text, and then choose Type > Insert White Space > Em space.

    However, if you’re using auto bullets, you’re right — CS2 doesn’t let you change the bullet separator, it’s always a tab. I’ll update the post accordingly.

    Here’s what you can do, though, to get the same end result in CS2 w/auto bullets:

    1. Set the bulletted paragraphs normally using automatic bullets. When they’re almost final …

    2. Select the bulleted paragraphs with the Type tool

    3. Right-click on the selection to open the contextual menu, and choose Convert Bullets to Text. Don’t deselect the text yet.

    4. Choose Edit > Find/Change to replace all the tabs with em spaces in the selection. (Enter ^t in the Find field and ^m in the Change field, make sure the Search pop-up menu is set to Selection, and click the Change All button.)

    Note that when you change from tabs to em spaces, you might need to fiddle with the left/first line indent measures a bit to get them to line up properly. This applies to both CS2 and CS3. (In the example shown in the post, the First Line indent is -1p4 and the Left Indent is 1p6.)

  • i just used this tip at work and it works perfectly. even in connected frames on CS3, thank you!

  • Rich says:

    Thanks. I’m actually after a much simpler thing – just getting hanging bullets to work properly when the text wraps to the right of a square box.

    I’ve got it “working” using your fix of em-space, but of course then you have to know the exact width of your bullet character plus the em-space, to enter in your indents.

    I’m new to InDesign (CS3) and it seems to be making simple things really difficult! In order to achieve this “automatically” it seems I need to make a separate text box and thread the boxes together. Yuk.

    Big thanks for this post though, a useful work-around to a serious limitation.

    • AaronA says:

      With a square box, another option is to simply edit the text wrap path itself using the pen tool: click on path to add points to it, then shift-click on 2 points to move that section to the right just after your bullet tab, effectively forcing the 2nd and subsequent lines of the paragraph to indent.

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    C ya

  • @Robert: It sounds as though your main concern is the old search feature. Do you use Search at the top, or the Advanced Search feature? Advanced search is much better. That said, I think we can still do better and we’re working on that.

    If you want to know the truth, I usually search our site with google, by typing “site:indesignsecrets.com search terms”.

  • Diane Serpa says:

    wooHOO! I so need this just now.

  • Oh, such a great little tutorial! Got us out of trouble while styling up a big annual report…. we had got all creative and created with hanging > indented > bullets > with wrapped > angled images!

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