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8:14 am April 12, 2011
| David Blatner
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Lenny wrote:
It seems that piracy is the most effective (marketable) way of getting excellent expensive software to most people who need and use it…very strange! I wonder what percentage of people who pirate software eventually purchase or recommend Adobe products?
@Lenny: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I got my start in the late 80s entirely from piracy. I never would have been able to afford to be in this industry if I had to pay for it. But as soon as I was making enough money to buy the software, I did.
I have long told Adobe that they should encourage a small amount of piracy, but I don't think they take me seriously.
That said, I have to admit that I go nuts whenever I see my own books or software or videos on a piracy site. The argument I tell myself is that it's different when it's the work of an small individual instead of a large corporation. Or pirating something which is relatively inexpensive vs. something expensive. But those arguments are all pretty lame. I just have to hope that people who pirate my work will ultimately be good enough to pay for it (or me in some other way) later.
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8:30 pm April 12, 2011
| David Blatner
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Interesting indeed. Here's an article on the subject: http://piracy.ssrc.org/adobe-logic/
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9:14 am April 13, 2011
| Eugene Tyson
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Post edited 9:16 am – April 13, 2011 by Eugene Tyson
This is really a question of the style of the times.
Take what David is saying, back in the 80's he used Pirate software as a necessity. But this wasn't available to the masses via the internet? Back then it was, I imagine, probably printing companies, prepress and design agencies. Which was fine (in comparison to how it's used in todays times), the software was being pirated by people that used it everyday to make high-end publications and designs, it was in a company setting, reputable etc. It was pretty much localised in terms of who was pirating it wasn't any Joe Soap. And without a high speed internet connection you couldn't pirate these things, and it was mostly businesses that had this available to them, not home users.
Even when the internet did come around download speeds were so pathetically slow that probably only companies using expensive ISDN or satellite powered internet service providers (which would be pretty expensive), so it was still large firms involved in piracy, in my opinion.
There was still a huge amount of skill involved in making these files press-ready and it wasn't a matter of "make a PDF and send it to a printers" or "print it to the A3 digital printer and trim". There was still a lot of work had to be done.
Printing companies probably up to about (in my mind) 2003 probably only every operated filmsetters, some even still shooting to camera and some started introducing CTP. I don't remember PDF workflow being implemented before 2004… at least not in the prepress where I worked. I had only finished college then and we were outputting to filmsetters in college, there was no CTP device.
But nowadays everyone has a super fast connection. You can virtually get anything you want, anything that was every produced digitally is available to download on the internet. And what's worse is that ANY Joe Soap can pretty much download and start using the software without having to know the trade at all.
The digital era has kicked in, you can setup a printing company for a fraction of the price it would have cost up to the early 2000's. Software can be pirated. Cheap digital printers can be bought at ground prices from companies in liquidation, so can trimming and finishing equipment.
Thinking back to the 80's, 90's even early 2000's you still had to have a fierce knowledge of the printing process. You didn't even really have forums or blogs or things, they are all new since about 2005 (in my eyes).
Piracy today with software is a lot different to back in the 80's, 90's and even early 2000's. Where it was legitimate companies with big printing presses, high-speed internets and the such that could genuinely do the work.
My point is now it's so cheap to setup that anyone can pass themselves off as a designer, prepress department, print company and they are complete and utter cowboys. There's no other way to describe them. They did a flyer in Word for someone and they liked it. They research the design software – download a pirate company and off they go flaunting their business. I'm not saying everyone who pirates software is like this.
The introduction of the these design contest sites riles me up. The opportunity to design logos and templates etc. and the off chance that you win you get paid? Now you have any wannabe designer downloading the software, designing logos and such like things for design contests and getting paid. Now I mean the end results for the contests is shockingly bad. They use clipart, copyrighted images, remove watermarks from stock images, live trace other logos that they find through google etc. Flaunting all the copyright laws that you can think of.
But this sort of thing did not happen in the 80's, 90's, early 20's. Simply because it was legitimate people running legitimate businesses that had the means through the fast internet speeds available to companies (home users would only get 56k modem speeds etc).
So the knock-on effects of piracy in todays world is completely different to when it was in the 80's, 90's and early 20's.
hmmm… I have to head off now so I can't polish this train of thought right now or even finish it – but I hope it's not offending to anyone?
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3:25 pm April 14, 2011
| Jongware
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… if you write a book, and I dishonestly present myself as the author of what you wrote, that's much worse. You yourself were the victim of a really awful example of that sort of piracy (of your excellent InDesign Object Reference). Action should be taken against that sort of thing, and I think it probably could be more effectively taken if stop pretending it's exactly same thing as theft, that's all.
Now that's an excellent example. Yup — I was, uh, displeased, to say the least. But I had my sweet revenge! First off, after a month or so of sullen musings, I retaliated by releasing a new version even better than it was before. Second, I made sure to make such a public Big Stink that anyone googling is sure to come across one of my posts discrediting that "pirated" version
Debating pricing, on the other hand, is far more tricky. Of course we can only presume Adobe calculates a fair price for their products — after all, you don't know neither the initial investment, nor the expected long term return rate. And it's anyone's guess how much better you would be off with a cheaper product (that includes "free" open source software; sure it's "free" but my experience is it usually comes with a hefty price in the form of unexpected problems).
My boss paid for InDesign; not once, but for all of our 4 or 5 active computers, and not once, but ever since (I think) InDesign v.2, chugging through update after update. Now some people elect to use pirated versions, because "they cannot afford it" — and, because they don't have the purchase expenses, they can produce the same quality of product as I do, but at a lower price. I cannot advise my boss to downgrade to a cheaper package with a clear conscience, and if we want to achieve the same price levels as these pirates, we might as well torrent the next ID as well!
And rather than investing in newer computers, we're gonna get ourselves a hefty brick and wait outside the Apple store until the lights go out. That'll save some pennies too.
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2:30 am April 15, 2011
| Jongware
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Jeremy said:
"My boss paid for InDesign; not once, but for all of our 4 or 5 active computers"
Ah, well, that's your non-problem right there — you have a boss. I have to make the choice myself.
Not my problem? My boss trusts me to judge whether it's worth to upgrade, and he trusts me on a good return of that investment. It's not as if he's a philantrope or anything.
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5:27 am April 15, 2011
| David Blatner
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These are all very good comments and ideas, but let's make sure we keep this discussion on philosophical ground, not aiming at each other. Everyone needs to make these decisions for themselves.
I want to be clear that I actually do believe piracy to be an evil and something that should be avoided when possible. More importantly, I believe that the important thing is to strive toward doing the right thing.
No one is perfect, but we all know that it's the right thing to pay for these tools. If you can pay, then pay. If you cannot pay, then either don't use the tools or use them with the knowledge that you have a debt to the tool makers.
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3:01 pm April 15, 2011
| Jongware
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Apologies to David for my tangentential take on this, but: piracy in software cannot be justified, in any way!
1. Using pirated software, you can produce the same stuff cheaper than honest people do.
2. You steal from the software developers as sure as you were taking the money out of their wallet, because they expect to get paid for their work, calculated their prices upon that, then see everyone use their programs and not getting any money back from it.
3. If the developers don't get paid, they won't make updates or a new version. Why should they?
4. Oh but not everyone is dishonest? Well, the honest (paying) users get to pay for stolen copies as well, because if only 5 copies are paid out of 20 actually used copies, those 5 paid copies have to bring in the same amount of money.
5. You are not "stealing property", only a copy thereof. My standard answer to that is: in that case give me your credit card number and expiry date. That in itself has no monetary value; it's just a string of digits. Oh and it's fully ensured, so even if I took advantage of it (imagine!), you still won't have lost a penny.
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3:12 pm April 15, 2011
| David Blatner
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You make very good points, Theun. However, I'm a relativist so I think there are always multiple perspectives.
For example, some authors/developers have found that piracy is actually beneficial for them… they sell more/make more by having their work pirated by some people.
That said, I would never say that piracy is always good. There are many situations where it's clearly evil. Your example of someone pirating software and then charging less than non-pirates for the same work is a great example.
Someone pirating InDesign to do free flyers for their college is one thing. Pirating a bunch of copies for their company to publish books that they sell is very different.
No software company can make fine distinctions; they must fight piracy everywhere, all the time. Well, actually, that's not true… some companies do have different piracy rules for different groups: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10…..ussia.html
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5:03 pm April 19, 2011
| Alan Gilbertson
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@Jeremy: It's true that home taping didn't kill music, but pirate downloading has crashed the income of many recording artists. I have friends in the music business, touring musicians with well-known artists, who have had to take fairly deep salary cuts and loss of other benefits over the years because the artist's royalties from recording sales plummetted with the original Napster, and have only gone down since then. This isn't because the artists in question aren't popular (they still sell out concerts across the world), it's because for every album they sell, four or five copies are downloaded "free" or are "shared." Nobody can take an 80% loss of income and carry on as if nothing's changed.
Perhaps because I have this kind of direct, personal experience, I don't think of piracy in terms of "big companies." I think of it in terms of people who can't be employed by those companies, or who end up losing their jobs, whose families depend on that income. Less income from sales translates straight through to fewer employees and/or fewer employee benefits, not least because salaries are by far the single biggest expense on a company's books.
In much the same way, as Theun pointed out, too many people with bootleg software undercutting legitimate businesses translates into missing job openings for designers, or depressed salaries, or both. This is especially true in small businesses, where business owners quite often pay themselves less than minimum wage.
Piracy issues are easy enough to justify when they're cast in philosophic, abstract terms. But there are always real people involved, and real consequences.
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6:44 pm April 22, 2011
| Alan Gilbertson
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Jeremy, the musicians I'm talking about are touring musicians, people who've made their careers performing on stage and still earn their living that way. The piracy issue has seriously affected their earnings, because as less and less money comes in from royalties, the artists they play for can't afford the salaries and benefits any more. Live performances are fairly constrained in terms of earnings, being squeezed by expenses on the one hand and how much you can charge for tickets in any given market. It has nothing to do with opulence, but with paying an ordinary mortgage and sending kids to school.
It isn't a matter of "the occasional teenager." It's thousands upon thousands of teenagers, twenty-somethings and other demographics. They aren't learning to play guitar (or trying to launch a career), they're just downloading music, movies and programs for free because it's easy and they haven't been taught to care one way or the other.
And really, "something valuable acquired for nothing, without the consent of the giver" is the basic legal and moral definition of theft.
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