Comments on: How Can I Align Double Digits in a Numbered List?

By: Claire Seng-Niemoeller

Claire Seng-Niemoeller — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:56:20 +0000

Aaah! I get it now! The negative amount needed for the “First line indent” isn’t referring to the space between the list text and the furthermost left edge of any type (here the numbers) like traditional uses of a negative indent does. For numbered lists with automatic numbering applied, a negative “first line indent” is the space BETWEEN the numbers and the text.

For example, if text is set in Stone Serif, a numbered list with a hang indent of 18 pts needs to have a left indent of -5 pts to set two-digit numbers with periods FL, and clear for 10 / line up the numbers on the periods. It’s 5 pts between the period and the start of the list text. Geez, it would be good for Adobe to come up with a better description of this like “space between numbers and text.”

Many thanks!

Claire

By: Claudia

Claudia — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:45:41 +0000

Claire;
Your numbers will probably be different from mine: I was just trying to show which values you need to experiment with.

I can’t post a graphic, but I used these values in a quick test of multiline text to get room for the numbers, plus a hanging indent:
-Left indent: .625″
-First Line Indent: -.375″
-Numbering: Left indent .625″
-First line indent: -.375″

By: Claire Seng-Niemoeller

Claire Seng-Niemoeller — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:29:52 +0000

Perhaps I’m not doing it right, but when I set the left indent for the numbers per the yellow highlighted area in Claudia’s sample, the hang indent on any turnlines in the list text turnlines shifts over to the same point. In CS3, the left indent for the list text and the left indent for the number can only be the same value. If you switch it in one place, it also switches in the other. Claudia’s sample shows no turnlines, so her technique works beautifully when working with a short-entry list but not with lists with any turnlines. InDesign would need to allow separate values for both boxes to have this work effectively for long document work.

So I’ve returned to a manual numbering on the number lists with a suggestion to others to use InDesign’s “figure space” instead of the en space to clear for 10. I set up a custom keystroke for this space. The en space will line up standard lining figures as well, but the figure space allows an easier time with nested styles and find/replace functions since the en space has many other uses besides just clearing for 10.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 05 May 2009 10:37:29 +0000

Thank you! I never thought I would figure this out. This website is so much better than the InDesign book I bought.

By: George

George — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:05:08 +0000

ummm… in financial typesetting, all numbers in a column have to anally align.

The way we do it is set all type using “optical kerning”
Then when the number columns are set up in a table, select those cells and use “metric kerning”.

If it still gets stubborn, define that attribute (optical,metric) simply as “0″.

By: David Farr

David Farr — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:44:23 +0000

Lining figures should all be set on a width of one en space if the typographer created them correctly.

I place a en space in front of single-digit list entries when creating a numbered list style sheet. This takes into account the correct position for “set list flush for 10″, which is the way I used to spec type many years ago went we sent manuscript to typehouses.

By: Eugene

Eugene — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:45:14 +0000

Also in the olden days (2001) I was shown by a very experienced typesetter to insert the first 9 numbers as 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18, 19 and to whiten the 1 at the start.

A method I no longer practice, thankfully.

By: bob

bob — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:35:23 +0000

In the old days–before desktop publishing–publishers would request that numbered lists “clear for ten” in their typesetting specs. The way this was done for fonts with lining numerals (most fonts) was to add an en space before 1 through 9. Lining numerals, and an en space, are all the same width. I find this trick still comes in handy at times.

By: Claudia McCue

Claudia McCue — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:15:06 +0000

Lauren,
No, you can’t kern those numbers, because they are “generated text” that you can’t select. But there are several options:

–Set your kerning to Optical, rather than the default Metrics

or…

Convert the numbers to plain old text: Type > Bulleted & Numbered Lists > Convert Numbering to Text. (Or you can right-click on selected text and choose Convert Numbering to Text). Then you can select the numbers an manipulate their kerning.

Or, consider using an OpenType font such as Myriad Pro, which offers Tabular Lining and other options for numbers. They tend to set numbers more evenly to begin with.

Hope this helps!

By: Lauren

Lauren — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:01:56 +0000

there’s still a problem with certain numbers…maybe it depends on the font, but in helvetica, the 10 and the 12 line up to each other, but the 11 looks like it needs kerning between the two 1’s. but you can’t kern these numbers, right?