Comments on: How Can I Align Double Digits in a Numbered List?

By: George

George — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:05:08 +0000

ummm… in financial typesetting, all numbers in a column have to anally align.

The way we do it is set all type using “optical kerning”
Then when the number columns are set up in a table, select those cells and use “metric kerning”.

If it still gets stubborn, define that attribute (optical,metric) simply as “0″.

By: David Farr

David Farr — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:44:23 +0000

Lining figures should all be set on a width of one en space if the typographer created them correctly.

I place a en space in front of single-digit list entries when creating a numbered list style sheet. This takes into account the correct position for “set list flush for 10″, which is the way I used to spec type many years ago went we sent manuscript to typehouses.

By: Eugene

Eugene — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:45:14 +0000

Also in the olden days (2001) I was shown by a very experienced typesetter to insert the first 9 numbers as 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17,18, 19 and to whiten the 1 at the start.

A method I no longer practice, thankfully.

By: bob

bob — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:35:23 +0000

In the old days–before desktop publishing–publishers would request that numbered lists “clear for ten” in their typesetting specs. The way this was done for fonts with lining numerals (most fonts) was to add an en space before 1 through 9. Lining numerals, and an en space, are all the same width. I find this trick still comes in handy at times.

By: Claudia McCue

Claudia McCue — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:15:06 +0000

Lauren,
No, you can’t kern those numbers, because they are “generated text” that you can’t select. But there are several options:

–Set your kerning to Optical, rather than the default Metrics

or…

Convert the numbers to plain old text: Type > Bulleted & Numbered Lists > Convert Numbering to Text. (Or you can right-click on selected text and choose Convert Numbering to Text). Then you can select the numbers an manipulate their kerning.

Or, consider using an OpenType font such as Myriad Pro, which offers Tabular Lining and other options for numbers. They tend to set numbers more evenly to begin with.

Hope this helps!

By: Lauren

Lauren — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:01:56 +0000

there’s still a problem with certain numbers…maybe it depends on the font, but in helvetica, the 10 and the 12 line up to each other, but the 11 looks like it needs kerning between the two 1’s. but you can’t kern these numbers, right?

By: krishna

krishna — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:50:49 +0000

excellent!!;o)

By: Andy MacBride

Andy MacBride — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:06:22 +0000

Claudia,

THANK YOU! This has puzzled me for quite some time, and I’m ashamed that I didn’t dig deeper into the list controls and figure it out myself.

I think part of the reason this is easily overlook is because the word “Alignment” needs more self-description (even though right above it it does say “Bullet or Number Position”. We’re (mostly) used to thinking of alignment in terms of the entire paragraph, not a sub-part of it. If the drop-down menu next to it said “Bullet/Number Aligns Left,” those of us who are a little thick in the head might “get it” more intuitively.

I must admit I was surprised that even after I knew what to do, creating a hanging list with turnover lines was far from intuitive. I finally gave up using the dialog box and directly manipulated the indents in the tab palette, and then read the values for the indents.

I’m also a bit puzzled by the implementation of the tab position. As I was trying to write up the behavior, it became too confusing to attempt a short/good explanation.

Bottom line — I hope this area is baked a bit more in IDCS4. It eventually does give you the results you’re looking for (hallelujah!), but getting there is much more difficult that I would have ever expected.

Andy MacBride

PS: Now that you’ve teased us with this interesting list of cake ingredients, I think you’re going to have to post the complete recipe.

By: Martin

Martin — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 06:44:55 +0000

Great tipp, thanks!
Best regards from Austria
Martin