By: Anne-Marie
November 13 2006 • 12:19 AM
InDesignSecrets Podcast 035
Listen in your browser:
InDesignSecrets-035.mp3 (13.3 MB, 28:13 minutes)
or read the transcript of this podcast.
- InDesign Conference: Master Class recap and highlights
- Audio clips from our live podcast at the conference
- Tips and gotchas when converting type to outlines
- Tough InDesign questions from the Butterfly Island contest
- Obscure InDesign Feature of the Week: The Barbell
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Mordy Golding’s Illustrator blog and his Outlined Type post
Sponsors for this episode:
Markzware (InDesign plug-in developer)
Special offer for podcast listeners ends Nov. 30 2006:
20% off any Markzware product! Go to their online store and enter
the coupon code IDSECRET during checkout to get the discount.
Listener Comment Line: +1-206-888-INDY (-4639)
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Thanks for the honorable mention guys! You left out the most important reason why you shouldn’t outline your fonts — you can’t edit the text anymore! In a world where clients fail to understand what “final sign off” really means, it’s nice when you cna call a printer and have them make a quick type change — something they can’t do if you’ve converted the text to outlines.
By the way, I don’t agree with the printer at all in this case. Using PDF/X-1a will solve all his problems (as embedded fonts are required). But some people are resistant to change. While I understand his reasoning for wanting outlined fonts, if I were to get such advice from a printer, I would likely search for another printer.
I ran into a situation where a design forced me to outline type. The design called for a vertical gradient being applied to a head. The heads were one or two lines long and had a mix of formatting (all by character styles). [Note: gradient swatches are horizontal; to make a gradient vertical, you have to rotate it in the Gradient palette. This can be captured in a character style, but the problem you face is that the gradient applies to the whole height of the text frame, so you get different results depending on where the text is on the page.]
The need for outlining stems from the peculiar way that gradient details are managed by InDesign — the length of the gradient defaults to the text frame, so the effect I was looking for was impossible to achieve if the gradient was applied to normal text, and the result of trying was inconsistent.
But applying the gradient to outlined text was a snap. It worked just as I wanted and achieved the desired effect with no trouble at all.
I just had to write me a couple of scripts. One script to record the styling of the original text (I kept it in a label of the first inline created by the outlining process — I never noticed that before: outlining creates inlines), the other script to use that record and convert back to text for the endless editing that Mordy speaks of.
A general purpose script to do this for every situation would be very complex but a custom script that took advantage of the known limitations of what was needed by way of formatting worked like a charm.
Dave
Their so many problems that could happens it you manualy create outline to all your text. I always get frustrated when I received an Indesign document with the type all outlined. How difficults it is for designer to use the Package command and collect all the used fonts in their documents. It’s so easy…
One of the points that nobody’s hit on here is that for most fonts it’s a violation of the EULA to package them unless the printer already has a license for that font.
As Mordy already pointed out, PDF is the solution to this and as far as I’m concerned any printer that doesn’t prefer PDF is falling way behind the curve and to require outlined fonts is big red flag me.
The printer in question here needs to start working with his customers and invest in a decent font library.
Bob: That’s like saying each visitor to Apple.com needs a licensed copy of Myriad in order for Apple to not violate the EULA.
I’ll be packaging my fonts, thank you.
Do what you want, but I will bite on your statement. How EXACTLY is that the same as supplying a font to a printer?
It’s a matter of reproduction. Using a font on a newsletter is no different than using the same font on the online version of that newsletter.
Say a designer creates a document. One copy is sent to the printer for reproduction and distribution, another is sent to a web server for downloading.
You think it’s ethical for a font maker to charge the printer to reproduce a font? Then why not the owner of the web server?
If I’m coming off a bit caustic, it’s only because EULAs frustrate the crap outta me in both their complexity and presumed authority. I do apologize. It’s nothing personal.
Unless you write EULAs for a living. Then we duel.
Let me ask you this? If you were working with another designer would you share or ask to share fonts? I certainly hope not. The rules really aren’t any different for printers. They’re expected to own the fonts that they need.
There are some EULAs that are so restrictive they don’t allow embedding in PDFs. That’s where I draw the line and won’t have anything to do with them.
AFAIK, all Adobe fonts allow for embedding in PDFs and allow you to package and send the font to a printer but only to assure that you and printer are using the same version. The printer still needs to have a licensed copy of the font.
Your analogy simply doesn’t work. Fonts are software. Do you think it’s ethical for Adobe to require the printer to own InDesign to open your InDesign file? If so, then it’s just as ethical for the font vendors to require it.
1. Yes ! Rules, underlines and striketroughs ARE PRESERVED when text is outlined through the flattening engine !
2. Outlining fonts via the flattening engine should be done only if we notice an odd behavior, a corrupted font AND if a TrueType font with embedding limitations is used in the document.
3. Even if you create a transparency flattener with text outlining, fonts embeded in imported EPS/PDF will not be outlined EVEN if the flattener preview tells you so (in red). The workaround : apply a 99.9% opacity on these imported graphics. This can save a lot of time when the embedded fonts in the EPS or the PDF are corrupted but ID’s PostScript Display displays them correctly.
4. The size of a PDF with outlined fonts bloats to the extreme as there are at least 6-8 anchor points per glyph ! I experienced this with a text only 500 page document exported in PDF :
Not outlined fonts : 2,3 Mb - Outlined fonts : 225 Mb
But size does not matter in this case when it has to be RIPed, it will take longer but it will output fine as long as the RIP is set to a resolution of 2400 ppi.
Great points, Branislav!
“(a transcript of this podcast will be posted in a few days)”
Where?
Bill, the transcripts usually show up as links in the show notes (at the top of this page). We’ve had some trouble with our transcript company in recent months, but I think things are getting better. Sorry for the delay.