Comments on: PDF Print Engine: “Throw Us Your Transparency Effects” http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php InDesignSecrets Blog and Podcast Thu, 24 May 2012 08:00:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Thomas http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-490740 Thomas Tue, 03 May 2011 19:46:10 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-490740 Hello Klaus Old thead, but maybe you are still reading it. We also create PDFs with a lot of nodes, paths and clipping masks. Do you have some expierence with RIPs commonly used for print machine like HP Indigo (Harlequin), Xerox Igen or Canon ImagePress (Fiery /Creo)? Did you ever had problems with PDFs having a lot of vector paths or complex clipping paths with such a RIP? Hello Klaus

Old thead, but maybe you are still reading it. We also create PDFs with a lot of nodes, paths and clipping masks. Do you have some expierence with RIPs commonly used for print machine like HP Indigo (Harlequin), Xerox Igen or Canon ImagePress (Fiery /Creo)? Did you ever had problems with PDFs having a lot of vector paths or complex clipping paths with such a RIP?

]]> By: Klaus Nordby http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-476237 Klaus Nordby Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:41:07 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-476237 I hope this valuable thread isn't totally forgotten! I have a semi-related question, slightly off-topic, perhaps, but this still seems the most sensible thread to ask about this very techy matter. Years ago it used to be the case that vector paths, in Illustrator/PDF files, could, if they contained enough nodes and path complexity (compound paths, etc), bring any RIP to its knees and grief to the world. I now have some huge, complex PDF files -- with tens of thousands of vector nodes and compound paths galore -- do I need to still be worried about how they will RIP, or is this ancient worry now history with the latest-generation RIPs, like the Adobe PDF Print Engine? And is there a simple, cheap way, with Acrobat Pro 9, for instance, to pre-rip the files as a safety test, to check if they will RIP-print? Yes, I know that Photoshop can rasterize almost any PDF and that trouble-files can thus be, in an emergency, circumvented and made to print -- but absolutely the last thing is want/need is to have all of these lovely vectors bitmapped. I want vector output at the RIP from these PDFs. I hope this valuable thread isn’t totally forgotten! I have a semi-related question, slightly off-topic, perhaps, but this still seems the most sensible thread to ask about this very techy matter. Years ago it used to be the case that vector paths, in Illustrator/PDF files, could, if they contained enough nodes and path complexity (compound paths, etc), bring any RIP to its knees and grief to the world. I now have some huge, complex PDF files — with tens of thousands of vector nodes and compound paths galore — do I need to still be worried about how they will RIP, or is this ancient worry now history with the latest-generation RIPs, like the Adobe PDF Print Engine? And is there a simple, cheap way, with Acrobat Pro 9, for instance, to pre-rip the files as a safety test, to check if they will RIP-print? Yes, I know that Photoshop can rasterize almost any PDF and that trouble-files can thus be, in an emergency, circumvented and made to print — but absolutely the last thing is want/need is to have all of these lovely vectors bitmapped. I want vector output at the RIP from these PDFs.

]]> By: Tom http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-467148 Tom Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:49:03 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-467148 Hi Luis, We have some iGen3 customers and they do not have APPE in their RIPs. We are providers of a software solution for the photobook and book on demand business. We have heavy mask and frame support in our editor and create layer based Pdfs. But some of our customers have to flatten the printjobs, as theirs RIPs do not handle the transparency well. I would be happy if some RIPS out there would use APPE. Tom >Excellent post! I used to work for the digital >printing department on a publishing company in >Puerto Rico. Does APPE exist for printers like the >DC 8000 or iGen3 from Xerox? Hi Luis,

We have some iGen3 customers and they do not have APPE in their RIPs.
We are providers of a software solution for the photobook and book on demand business. We have heavy mask and frame support in our editor and create layer based Pdfs. But some of our customers have to flatten the printjobs, as theirs RIPs do not handle the transparency well. I would be happy if some RIPS out there would use APPE.

Tom

>Excellent post! I used to work for the digital >printing department on a publishing company in >Puerto Rico. Does APPE exist for printers like the >DC 8000 or iGen3 from Xerox?

]]> By: Dov Isaacs http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-371284 Dov Isaacs Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:41:53 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-371284 WRT/ John Clifford's comments: The comments about Time, Inc.'s supposed PDF workflow are very interesting. In fact, you don't need a PostScript 3 RIP to properly print/separate a PDF file with live transparency and color management. With a copy of Acrobat 5 or later, it was very easy to successfully print such files from Acrobat to any fully conforming PostScript language level 2 or language level 3 device. In the case of Time, Inc., at least back a number of years, when you submitted pages in their PDF/X-1a subset, after doing a preflight operation, Time, Inc. exported the PDF file to EPS files and placed them in QuarkXPress. (QuarkXPress never did a reasonable job of placing PDF beyond PDF 1.2 especially when dealing with CID-encoded fonts, color, etc!) The limitation was NOT the RIPs, but rather the problems of dealing with the fact you totally lose color management via EPS and transparency must be flattened going into EPS. Time, Inc. did not have a real end-to-end PDF workflow! Other Time, Inc. restrictions, such as not permitting use of TrueType fonts, was pure baloney based on misperceptions of where problems really occurred in workflows. WRT/ John Clifford’s comments:

The comments about Time, Inc.’s supposed PDF workflow are very interesting.

In fact, you don’t need a PostScript 3 RIP to properly print/separate a PDF file with live transparency and color management. With a copy of Acrobat 5 or later, it was very easy to successfully print such files from Acrobat to any fully conforming PostScript language level 2 or language level 3 device.

In the case of Time, Inc., at least back a number of years, when you submitted pages in their PDF/X-1a subset, after doing a preflight operation, Time, Inc. exported the PDF file to EPS files and placed them in QuarkXPress. (QuarkXPress never did a reasonable job of placing PDF beyond PDF 1.2 especially when dealing with CID-encoded fonts, color, etc!) The limitation was NOT the RIPs, but rather the problems of dealing with the fact you totally lose color management via EPS and transparency must be flattened going into EPS. Time, Inc. did not have a real end-to-end PDF workflow!

Other Time, Inc. restrictions, such as not permitting use of TrueType fonts, was pure baloney based on misperceptions of where problems really occurred in workflows.

]]> By: John Clifford http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-370028 John Clifford Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:23:17 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-370028 Per Dov's remarks: The main reason I mention printers' reluctance to upgrading RIPs (and I agree that the cost is really negligible these days in comparison to the benefits) harkens back to the announcement at Print05 when Time, Inc. went to PDF as their requirement for ads. They had an even more restrictive version of PDF than x-1a because their printers didn't all have level 3 postscript RIPs at that time (and that with the power of Time). With that announcement burned into my brain, I always advise that people check with their printer as to what RIP and PS/APPE version they're using. Per Dov’s remarks:

The main reason I mention printers’ reluctance to upgrading RIPs (and I agree that the cost is really negligible these days in comparison to the benefits) harkens back to the announcement at Print05 when Time, Inc. went to PDF as their requirement for ads. They had an even more restrictive version of PDF than x-1a because their printers didn’t all have level 3 postscript RIPs at that time (and that with the power of Time). With that announcement burned into my brain, I always advise that people check with their printer as to what RIP and PS/APPE version they’re using.

]]> By: Luis Santos http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-368849 Luis Santos Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:05:57 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-368849 Excellent post! I used to work for the digital printing department on a publishing company in Puerto Rico. Does APPE exist for printers like the DC 8000 or iGen3 from Xerox? Thanks again for an excellent post and look forward for more! Excellent post! I used to work for the digital printing department on a publishing company in Puerto Rico. Does APPE exist for printers like the DC 8000 or iGen3 from Xerox?

Thanks again for an excellent post and look forward for more!

]]> By: Per Arne Flatberg http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-368805 Per Arne Flatberg Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:14:53 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-368805 Klaus: I don't think there's any installation of APPE in Oslo yet. I know some of the larger printers (Merkur, Kampen and probably others as well) are looking into it, but most won't place an order until after Drupa. However, there is at least one in Bergen. I will be looking into that one at the end of the month. The benefits of using a printer who actually sees the benefits of APPE should be huge. Klaus: I don’t think there’s any installation of APPE in Oslo yet. I know some of the larger printers (Merkur, Kampen and probably others as well) are looking into it, but most won’t place an order until after Drupa.
However, there is at least one in Bergen. I will be looking into that one at the end of the month.
The benefits of using a printer who actually sees the benefits of APPE should be huge.

]]> By: Dov Isaacs http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-367846 Dov Isaacs Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:23:28 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-367846 WRT/ Harlequin products ... No, they do not use the Adobe PDF Print Engine. WRT/ Harlequin products …

No, they do not use the Adobe PDF Print Engine.

]]> By: Al Ferrari http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-367526 Al Ferrari Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:37:03 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-367526 Steve and David, Thanks for confirming what I had suspected. I asked because I had just learned about version 8 from Harlequin coming at about the same time as Adobe's APPE, and thought there may be a connection. But David, you are the one to use the term "clone", not Steve. It seems comical to me that Harlequin, which solved the problem first on their own, should be saddled with that label. Why not consider Adobe the clone? It seems we are being Adobe-centered here. Al Steve and David,

Thanks for confirming what I had suspected. I asked because I had just learned about version 8 from Harlequin coming at about the same time as Adobe’s APPE, and thought there may be a connection.

But David, you are the one to use the term “clone”, not Steve. It seems comical to me that Harlequin, which solved the problem first on their own, should be saddled with that label. Why not consider Adobe the clone? It seems we are being Adobe-centered here.

Al

]]> By: David Blatner http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php/comment-page-1#comment-367286 David Blatner Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:27:38 +0000 http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-print-engine-throw-us-your-transparency-effects.php#comment-367286 Al, as Steve mentioned, Harlequin is a "clone" competitor to Adobe's RIP. They do have a pdf engine that can rip transparency (they came out with theirs even before Adobe), but I don't have any experience with it. Al, as Steve mentioned, Harlequin is a “clone” competitor to Adobe’s RIP. They do have a pdf engine that can rip transparency (they came out with theirs even before Adobe), but I don’t have any experience with it.

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