Podcast 86 Transcript
To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast 86 page.
[music]
Anne-Marie Concepcion: Welcome to InDesign Secrets Episode 86. I’m Anne-Marie Blatner and I’m here…???[laughter]
Anne-Marie: That’s bizarre.
David Blatner: [laughing] Anne-Marie Blatner!
Anne-Marie: Ah, silly me, I should have said David Concepcion. Oh, no, wait. I’m Anne-Marie…
David: [interrupting] Anne-Marie!
Anne-Marie: … And I’m here with my cohost, David!
David: Yeah, there you go. I don’t how my wife is going to feel about that. Anne-Marie Blatner. OK, all right.
Anne-Marie: Or your parents. I could be your sister.
David: That’s true! [dramatic] My long lost sister, it’s so good to find you at last!??? [laughter]
Anne-Marie: All right, David Blatner is my cohost. And our podcast and blog at indesignsecrets.com are the independent resource for all things InDesign [echo fade on the last word] .
David: Coming up on today’s show: we have some news about InDesign CS4, not just CS3, not CS2, but CS4 news [echo]. Be there!??? Also, some other InDesign blogs that you might want to know about, some new blogs that have been coming out, want to tell you about those; and also some posts that you probably want to read on our blog, if you are not a daily reader we’ve had some stuff come up over the last week that we should to tell you about; and then the obscure InDesign feature of the week [echo] is merge swatches. Merge swatches. Yep. It’s obscure.
Anne-Marie: [unintelligible]
David: I can’t wait; that’s one of my favorite obscure features, it’s just so weird.
Anne-Marie: That’s a good one. And this episode is sponsored by Markzware and Recosoft, makers of the file format converter software. So, first up: Markzware. We love Markzware, right?
David: Oh, Yeah.
Anne-Marie: They have saved my bacon many a time. They are the people who do the Q2ID plugin, to convert Quark documents from version three to version seven to and I don’t know; have they upgraded it yet to 8?
David: I don’t think so; I don’t think they’re doing XPress eight yet probably any day now because they tend to keep up with those things.
Anne-Marie: They better hurry up as, you know, there are millions of Quark eight users. All those Quark eight files…
David: Hey! Be nice.
Anne-Marie: Sorry, sorry, all right. One day. Soon.
David: But, it is true that the Q2ID plugin is almost a necessity if you work with Express at all, or if you know anybody who has Express files you have to open in InDesign, you’re going to get that, it’s very, very good. They also have Publisher what is it, Pub2ID for Microsoft Publisher files.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: Convert those to into InDesign files, which a lot, a lot of people need especially for you know, quick print, if you work for quick print places or something like that.
Anne-Marie: Don’t forget, if you… [pauses, laughs] What is it, wait, don’t forget… ID2Q! OK.
David: True! True!
Anne-Marie: So, sometimes you’re working in a mixed, not a platform, but a mixed software environment and do need to move those files back and forth. You know, you do something in InDesign, your client only uses Quark, you can still do it, but then use, you know, ID2Q to get into Quark format.
David: The QuarkXPress user needs it because that’s actually a QuarkXPress extension, as opposed to the plugins. But yes, they’re basically converting all kinds of files to all kinds of other files and it is… They’re very good. And you know that Q2ID is, what’s like 199?
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: Basically 200 bucks. And they’re offering a limited time special exclusive deal $50 off/25 per cent off that price if you use the code “secret.” So you go to their website and you buy it and use the code “secret.” It’ll go down to 150 bucks, like 149 dollars.
Anne-Marie: Just for our InDesign secrets listeners and it’s a limited time offer, so get your butt over there quickly.
David: Absolutely.
Anne-Marie: And if you order like five or 10 packs then you get even more off.
David: Yeah. Now, Recosoft is another file converter company and we have talked about them in the past; they’ve been sponsors in the past.
Anne-Marie: Yes.
David: They make PDF2ID, which converts PDF files into InDesign documents, and that is awesome too. That’s one of those musthave saving bacon things.
Anne-Marie: Oh, yeah. That’s right. That’s right. And like say you send out a PDF to a client and they comment it all up. You can open that up as comments only and put those comments right on top of the InDesign items. We talked about that before.
David: Yeah, yeah, we did. Oh, I love that feature, a very impressive feature. It’s a great plugin, but all of these are very, very good plugins. Definitely please check those out. Right now!???[laughter]
Anne-Marie: In an upcoming article for Creative Protocom, you know I have that “Her Geekness” column every month, I’m in the middle of a multipart series about converting documents. Like you get all these crazy, wonky files from your clients, and how do you get them into something you can use?
David: hmm.
Anne-Marie: And I said, for example, Pages documents, that’s from Apple’s iWork.
David: Yep.
Anne-Marie: How can you get a Pages document into InDesign? Well, you really can’t, but you can export Pages to PDF; that’s a built in command. And then, you can use PDF2ID to convert that into an InDesign document.
David: Exactly.
Anne-Marie: Pages to InDesign. There you go.
David: Right. I’ve done that with Excel documents to InDesign, with all kinds of weird documents, converting them into InDesign. Very helpful plugin. OK. So, speaking of sponsorships, we also should just finish up.
Anne-Marie: Oh, yeah.
David: John Bassant and Certitec in the U.K. our sponsors for the past several episodes. You’ve heard us talk about him before. Great training in the U.K. He just wanted to let us know that they’ve had two more winners of their drawing.???They did a weekly drawing for training, and those two last winners were Nigel Harris from Cheltenham, U.K., which apparently is a font. He lives in a font.???[laughter]
David: I don’t know. That’s one of my favorite fonts actually, Cheltenham Condensed.
Anne-Marie: That’s great. He moved there from Brush Script.???[laughter]
David: And Beth Pickle from William Blair and Company in London. So, both of them won free training from Certitec.
Anne-Marie: That’s right. Congratulations, Beth and Nigel, and I hope you get a lot out of that InDesign training and let us know how it went.
David: Yes.
Anne-Marie: And, thank you so much, John. That was a great, great promotion.
David: Yeah. OK. InDesign CS4444.
Anne-Marie: InDesign CS4. Right. When we talked about this, I had no idea that Adobe, I guess I’d been under a rock. But, yesterday you said, David, they announced that they were going to announce.
David: Exactly. I don’t know when this started happening, when companies started announcing that they are going to announce something.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: But, that’s what happened.
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: Adobe announced officially that they are going to be announcing something about CS4 on September 23rd.
Anne-Marie: OK.
David: And so, we will have all the news on September 23rd.
Anne-Marie: Yes, we will.
David: So, definitely check out this about them.
Anne-Marie: Yeah, they did this last time, too. They announced before they’re going to announce, and they announce, and then when they announce is when they say that they’re going to ship, so then they’ll say.???So, on September 23rd, if you want to know when can we actually get it, then you’ll know for sure on that date.
David: Right. We don’t really know.
Anne-Marie: And all these people …
David: Usually, it’s within weeks, not months, of that date.
Anne-Marie: No, that’s correct.
David: So, we’re talking weeks, but maybe a month, two months, but it sounds like it’s going to be 2008, which is very exciting for CS4. And I’m sure they’re going to have lots of cool features in that. So, we just wanted to let you know.
Anne-Marie: So, is it just InDesign CS4 that’s coming, or are there other CS4 apps?
David: They’ve decided to drop Photoshop from the suite.???[laughter]
Anne-Marie: Well, they finally woke up that Photoshop and Illustrator are mere plugins for the InDesign universe.???[laughter]
Anne-Marie: Finally. They’re going to charge $199 each?
David: Exactly.
Anne-Marie: Maybe, we could get them as a sponsor?
David: Maybe so, maybe so.???[laughter]
David: Yeah, they decided they’re renaming it the InDesign Suites, and everything else is just plugins to InDesign.???[laughter]
David: So, that’s pretty good.
Anne-Marie: Yes, that’s the way that God meant it to be, I believe.
David: I think so. I think so.
Anne-Marie: So, that’ll be exciting, and we’ll definitely have a ton of news about that.
David: September 23rd.
Anne-Marie: There have been some newer blogs that have passed our way, and they have really great information, especially if you use InDesign, and a couple of them we’ve written about.???One of my favorite ones is the one done by Mike Rankin, who is going to be a speaker at the InDesign conference in Seattle I found out. So, that’s wonderful.
David: He is. He is. That is going to be great.
Anne-Marie: I think I might have talked about it before. It’s publicious.net. It’s his blog. We’ll have a link to it, but go to Publicious.net, though it’s not really an InDesign blog. He’s a print/geek/trainer, xml guy at a large text book publishing firm, and he just writes about issues having to do with publishing, but almost everything’s about InDesign, and he’s very funny, and has some great information too.
David: Absolutely. You should definitely check out Publicious. I put it on my list of blogs that I read all the time. Good stuff, Mike. Thank you for all your contributions. That’s a very cool one.???Also, InDesign1200.com, or I don’t think there’s anything at that address. It’s actually InDesign1200.com/blog, which is Kasey Dandria’s blog about keyboard shortcuts, and efficiency in InDesign, and he posted his PDF of all his keyboard shortcuts all the InDesign keyboard shortcuts plus a bunch of keyboard shortcuts that he recommends people create themselves. And it’s an interactive PDF, so you can turn things on and off and there’s lots of tips in the PDF and all kinds of stuff there, so definitely check that out. I think, right now, it’s pretty sparse; he’ll be adding a bunch of stuff in the future, but if you just go there just to get the PDF it’s worth it. Check that out.
Anne-Marie: Why is it called 1200?
David: Because there are over 1200 potential keyboard shortcuts in InDesign.
Anne-Marie: Wow, over 1200.
David: It’s either that or because InDesign was originally written in the year 1200 [AnneMarie laughs], which is possible, but with slow upgrades.
Anne-Marie: Maybe, that’s CS4 is going to cost. [David laughs] Maybe he knows something we don’t know.
David: Exactly. There you go. Twelvehundred somethings.
Anne-Marie: All right, let’s not do that.???And right on that tail, let’s talk about DearAdobe.com, which is kind of a fun site, actually. I wrote a post about this. DearAdobe was started just a couple of weeks ago by a couple of web designers who thought, ‘wouldn’t it be neat to have a website where people could write an open letter to Adobe, just like, what they want, or what they like, or what they hate, and just publish it, just a place to vent,’ is how they put it. And after a week, there’s already, I think close to 10,000 posts, and each one is just like a sentence or two long, and not just about InDesign, but about a whole bunch of Adobe software. But, they do have an InDesign section with some very good DearAdobe, why can’t we do x, y, or z. Or I guess, Adobe let’s you do x, y, or z in InDesign, but maybe some more specific things.
David: They don’t let you vote for them, though, do they?
Anne-Marie: There is a way to vote. I haven’t been able to figure it out. You can look at the top 25 DearAdobe’s for each software program, and I think from there you can vote. Like you say, agree or disagree.
David: Oh, OK.
Anne-Marie: So, when you see somebody’s there’s a bug at the top that says, agree, disagree, or incorrect, if somebody put up something that’s actually incorrect. And it’s not an official site; there’s no advertising, or anything like that. They’re not trying to make money from it. I think it has just something to do at the end of August.???But, what’s interesting is that Adobe has picked up on it. John Knack, at least, the Photoshop product manager, who is very prolific on his blog, (we’ll put a link to his blog as well) said that Adobe took notice and they’re already passing around some of those DearAdobe messages within their Internal Engineering Teams.
David: Right. Check that out. It’s fun. There’s some really good stuff in there, and I’m going to have to go agree or disagree with something.
Anne-Marie: It’s R rated by the way, so don’t let your 10 year old get on there. There’s no censorship.
David: No filtering for it.
Anne-Marie: No filtering, let’s put it that way.
David: People have strong feelings about this software.
Anne-Marie: Yes they do.
David: Unlike us.???Speaking of blogs, we should talk about some of the things that are on our blog, which is rated PG, not R, and on our blog, some recent posts.???One of the things that I posted recently had to do with the Make Grid script that comes with InDesign.
Anne-Marie: Oh, I love that. You know, I didn’t realize…. Go ahead. Sorry.???[David laughs]
Anne-Marie: I’m thinking about your screen shot, and I didn’t realize that you could do that with that script.
David: Oh, yeah. Well, one of the tricks I was showing is you could take an image and break it up into a grid of little tiny frames. And then you can delete them or change them or whatever.???The idea is that Make Grid is a script. It’s a free script. It comes with InDesign, and it can turn any frame into a grid of frames, and you can set how much space you want between them and so on.???And that’s one of those things that a lot of people do not know that they already have. It’s like a feature, although you have to go through the extra hassle of doubleclicking on the script in order to run it, instead of pulling it from a menu.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: But, it’s very powerful. Anyway, that was one of the ones that I wanted to point out.
Anne-Marie: And I wrote about another script that is not part of the default set. But, what happened was I got a call from a client who said they’re doing this huge conversion from Quark to InDesign of a textbook series, which encompasses 70 documents that are all huge.???And they are trying to recreate the styles. What would help them immensely if they were able to, after they converted the Quark docs into InDesign, is to print out all the style sheets specs.???Somebody could just sit down with it and say, OK, this is based on that one, this is based on that one, and we can get rid of this, and we should change this to that. I mean, to have it right down there on paper in front of you is a lot easier than going one by one through style options.
David: Yeah.
Anne-Marie: Especially since you can’t move from style to style with the dialogue box open. She said, “I know that in QuarkXPress there is a way to print out the style sheet specs,” which actually I don’t think so.???But, anyway, she said, “Isn’t there a way to do that in InDesign?” And I think I heard of that. There was a script for this. And, of course, our friend Dave Saunders wrote that script for CS2, and he said it still works in CS3 as long as you do that trick about putting older scripts into a special folder called Version 4.0.???And I explained all that, and linked to David’s post where he explained it in more detail in our post. So, basically, you get that script. It’s free. There’s a link to it in the post, and then you doubleclick it in your scripts panel, and you can print out all sorts of detail about all of your styles paragraph and character styles.
David: Yep. Absolutely. I think, that’s a very important one that the people need to know about the ability to get reports on all their styles and things like that. So, there’s that script. There’s also a plugin that we should mention since we’re talking about that.
Anne-Marie: OK.
David: There’s a plugin from Slendro called Style Reporter, and it will also give you a similar thing. It gives you more features, actually, than this script, and this script is free.
Anne-Marie: Free.
David: Please send Dave money if you use it a lot.
Anne-Marie: Yes.
David: But, the plugin called Style Reporter, from Slendro, gives you even more information, and it’s very cool. So, that’s definitely …
Anne-Marie: I haven’t tried that yet.
David: I tried it a while back. I have not tried it with CS3. I’m looking on the website; it looks like it’s still there, and is updated for CS3, so better get them to send me a copy and try it out. It’s pretty cool, pretty cool. But, that’s an important script one.
Anne-Marie: That’s right. Have them send me a copy, too.
David: Hey, I’ll do that. [laughs] And all our users and all our listeners out there at InDesignSecrets.com.
Anne-Marie: All of our users would like a copy of your plugin, please, to test it out. Yes.
David: Yeah. We’ll see how that works.
Anne-Marie: All right, yeah. We’ll see how that goes. I wrote another post that I think people would be interested in, if you didn’t catch it, was a post I wrote called fine text changed to graphic.???Somebody was complaining on the InDesign forum at Adobe’s website that they were doing this horrendous repetitive production job where every time they’d encounter a series of code, they’d have to delete it and replace it with an inline graphic.
David: Right.
Anne-Marie: And they had to do it like a thousand times per document and that there had to be an automated way or script or something that would let them do that kind of find and replace.
David: There has to be. Yeah.
Anne-Marie: And somebody answered them. I think, actually, it was Bob Levine, one of our contributors. He said, “Hey, have you thought about find/change?”???And I thought that is a great idea for post because not a lot of people realize that you can use find/change to search for text and replace it with whatever is in your clipboard, even if it’s a graphic that’s in your clipboard.
David: hmm.
Anne-Marie: So, when you replace it, it replaces it as an inline graphic.
David: Absolutely.
Anne-Marie: There you go.
David: Very helpful. I love that.
Anne-Marie: You choose clipboard contents, formatted or unformatted, from the “change what” field.
David: I actually wrote a post about that on the blog, about several months ago, three or four months ago I think, and then I saw yours. And I thought, “Well, why didn’t she just refer to mine?” Then, I looked back at mine.
Anne-Marie: I’m sorry.
David: Well, it’s OK. I looked back at mine and I realized that you make your blog posts pretty.
Anne-Marie: [laughs]
David: You know, like nice graphics and stuff. My blog post is kind of plain, just gives you the information, here, here’s a feature.
Anne-Marie: [laughs]
David: So, I’m going to have to learn. So, I don’t begrudge you at all on that one. I think, you did the better blog post on that subject.
Anne-Marie: OK, all right.
David: No doubt about it.
Anne-Marie: Well, you know, I think you’ve done some very nice looking graphics.
David: I’m going to have to work harder. I just have to go find some better graphics, I guess. So, all right.
Anne-Marie: [laughs] All right. One more post that we really enjoyed, and that was Bob’s post about…
David: [interjects] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anne-Marie: A solution that he found for PDFs that failed to place.
David: Well, this was driving me crazy because I kept placing some PDFs. These were actually PDFs that Sandy Cohen sent me. I was trying to place them into InDesign and I just couldn’t get it to work. It was driving me crazy. I ended up having to open them…
Anne-Marie: Well, what happened? They just wouldn’t come in, or what?
David: I would get an error that said, “PDF failed to place” or failed to open, or something.
Anne-Marie: OK.
David: I couldn’t figure it out. It was bizarre. These were PDFs that were actually created in Photoshop, in this case. I could not figure out why InDesign couldn’t read them. It seemed mind boggling. Anyway, Bob reported that somebody had mentioned on the forums this great and very simple solution: just turn on “Show Import Options.” Somehow, that just nudges InDesign into waking up, like, “Oh, maybe I can read this after all.”
Anne-Marie: Oh really?
David: That seems to be it. I tried it out immediately, as soon as I read it, I was like, “Maybe I’ll try it.” I tried it out, and it worked.
Anne-Marie: It fixed it for you.
David: All of a sudden, PDFs that would not place, they placed just fine. So, weird, weird little…
Anne-Marie: Great tip.
David: Yep.
Anne-Marie: That’s a great tip, Bob. That’s wonderful. You know, whenever somebody asks me about that, or whenever it’s happened to me, I always figure that it’s got to be some security setting.
David: Yes.
Anne-Marie: Sometimes, you get something that’s secure, and you’re like, “Oh, I’m going to work around this by placing it in InDesign.”
David: Yes.
Anne-Marie: You can’t do it.
David: No, that won’t work, won’t work. That doesn’t work.
Anne-Marie: [laughs] No, OK.
David: Anyway, but that’s a good point. Anyway, we should go on. Those are just some of the things. Check them out on the blog post if you want to know more information on them.
Anne-Marie: huh.
David: In the meantime, let’s move on to…
Both speakers: [in unison] the obscure…
David: …InDesign feature…
Anne-Marie: …of the week.
David: …week.
Anne-Marie: eek.
David: [laughs] eek.
Both Speakers: [in unison] eek.
David: eek, eek, eek, eek.
Anne-Marie: All right. And that is…
David: What is that? Oh, Merge?
Anne-Marie: Merge swatches.
David: Merge swatches?
Anne-Marie: Mmhmm, Merge swatches.
David: Can you merge them already?
Anne-Marie: You want me to merge the swatches?
David: I want you to, yes, please.
Anne-Marie: [laughs]
David: Would you please to be word merging the swatches?
David: This is so obscure that, as far as I can tell. It is not even in the documentation. I could not find any reference to this feature in the documentation. Which, even on there, online, I don’t know, maybe I just missed it.
Anne-Marie: Really?
David: It’s sitting there right inside the swatches panel flyout menu. Just choose any two swatches in the swatches panel, and look in the swatches panel menu, and you’ll see it, Merge swatches. It seems like such an interesting idea. Take two or more objects.
Anne-Marie: I always miss it, you know, because it’s always grade out. So, I don’t notice it.
David: Exactly. How often do you choose two or more swatches?
Anne-Marie: That’s true.
David: First of all, we should mention how you do choose two or more swatches.
Anne-Marie: OK.
David: You select one, and then you select the others.
Anne-Marie: [laughs]
David: No. [laughs] You select the one…
Anne-Marie: [interjects] That’s the obscure tip.
David: …and then, hold down the command key on the Mac, or the control key on Windows, and then select on the others. Whenever you have a list, the command or control key will let you select multiple objects in that list, including the list in that swatches panel. You can select more than one noncontiguous, discontiguous item in that list.
Anne-Marie: huh.
David: So, then you choose Merge swatches, and what happens?
Anne-Marie: They mix and they make a baby swatch?
David: [laughs] I like that idea.
Anne-Marie: Mix, you know, blue and yellow, and get a green swatch?
David: There you go.
Anne-Marie: That would be very cool.
David: That would be cool.
Anne-Marie: Then, you have to hold down the option key for that one.
David: It doesn’t work that way, but…
Anne-Marie: [laughs] No. What happens?
David: I like your idea a lot, and I think you should go to DearAdobe.com and type that in…
Anne-Marie: [laughs]
David: …immediately, while we’re talking.
Anne-Marie: OK, I will. All right.
David: What happens? It’s a way basically replace some swatches with another swatch. You know, how you can select a swatch and hit delete? If that swatch has been used anywhere it gives you an option to replace it with some other swatch, which I like that.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: So, merge swatches is kind of a backdoor way to do that automatically and you can replace one or more swatches with any other swatch, and it won’t even ask you. It won’t even give you a warning, it just does it.???The problem is that it’s really not intuitive, and you can’t figure out which swatch is going to change to another swatch.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: Right?
Anne-Marie: Because sometimes it’s not the one on top. It’s not the one higher one up on the list always, which is what you would think.
David: Right, right. That’s one thing you might think, or maybe the last one on it.
Anne-Marie: I think, that’s what I think, because somehow I always think of the merged layers in Photoshop.
David: Oh, yes! That’s a good point.
Anne-Marie: Right, right.
David: Interesting.
Anne-Marie: I would think it would work the same way, and also merge layers in InDesign.
David: There you go! You see there’s all kinds of options, but that’s not how it works either.
Anne-Marie: OK.
David: The way it works is whichever swatch you click on first gets saved. The other swatches, the ones you click next get merged into the first swatch you click on.
Anne-Marie: Well, they get replaced by, they don’t get merged into. They get deleted.
David: They get replaced by the first one you selected. If you click on Yellow, and select “Yellow” and then control or command click on Magenta, and then control click on Cyan, and then you merge swatches, everything gets replaced with Yellow.
Anne-Marie: Yeah. So, if something was colored Cyan and Magenta, it’s now colored Yellow. You don’t even get a little warning about it.
David: No.
Anne-Marie: It figures, “Oh! He must know what he’s doing, since he chose this command.”
David: Right, because it’s so obscure that nobody else would choose it.
Anne-Marie: [laughs]
David: I have to tell you it would not make me even a little bit sad if they took this feature out of the program. I have never actually used it, because I much prefer the Delete Swatch feature.
Anne-Marie: What if you had like 10 permutations of a color that you wanted to replace all of them with this other color? Then, it would come in very handy.
David: No, even then isn’t there an addon? I’m going to have to try that. I think, even then I wouldn’t use it.
Anne-Marie: OK, because?
David: I want to have the dialogue box. I want to have the dialogue box that says, “Replace this with this.” I don’t know; that’s just me.
Anne-Marie: You know what would be really cool?
David: What would be really cool?
Anne-Marie: A map of swatches.
David: Yes.
Anne-Marie: You know along the lines of map styles or map tags?
David: Sure, yeah, yeah.
Anne-Marie: You could say, “Here are all your swatches duplicated on the left and on the right.”
David: Yep.
Anne-Marie: “I want these five swatches mapped to this one swatch.”
David: Yep. No, I just tried it. I still would not use merge swatches, because if you select more than one swatch in the swatches panel and click delete, you get the dialogue box that says, “What do you want to replace all of these swatches with?” So, with one click, you can replace all of them with that new swatch.
Anne-Marie: You have a lot more control that way.
David: You have a lot more control, and you don’t have to remember, “Now, is it the first swatch I clicked on? Was it the last swatch I clicked on?”
Anne-Marie: That’s right, that’s right. There’s no extra heavy black outline around the first one that you selected, which would be very helpful.
David: Right, right. No, it’s a ridiculous feature. Merge swatches is completely ridiculous take it out!
Anne-Marie: I think that maybe we should start another, “Ridiculous feature of the week!”
David: [laughs] Not just obscure.
Anne-Marie: That can be number one. [laughs]
David: Not just obscure, but actually ridiculous.
Anne-Marie: [laughs] All right, well that’s it for Episode #86.
David: Yes.
Anne-Marie: Thanks again to both Markzware and Recosoft for their kind support of InDesign Secrets, and all of our listeners. Check out their products, and let them know that we sent you. We’ll have links to their sites in our show notes.???Be sure to check out those show notes so that you can post your comments, let us know what you thought of the show. You can also email us at info@InDesignSecrets.com, and until we meet again, this is Anne-Marie Concepcion and …
David: David Blatner [laughs] for InDesign Secrets.???[music]