Podcast 90 Transcript
To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast 90 page.
Anne-Marie Concepcion: Welcome to InDesign Secrets, Episode 90. It is an even number.
David Blatner: [laughs] It is, that’s true.
Anne-Marie: You do the evens? Go ahead.
David: No. You do the even ones. Go ahead, please.
Anne-Marie: You want to continue being the oddball, because I get to say, “Oh, 90, it’s 9×10.”
David: You can do it. Go for it.
Anne-Marie: Nine plus zero equals 90. I’m Anne-Marie Concepcion, and I’m here along with my cohost, David Blatner.
David: Hi.
Anne-Marie: Hi, David. Our podcast and blog at InDesignSecrets.com are the independent resource for all things InDesign.
David: It’s true! And coming up on today’s show, we’ve got big news. Big, big news. All right. That’s not quite that big, but still some reasonable news.
Anne-Marie: Yes.
David: We are also going to talk about some significant bugs that are starting to pop up in InDesign CS4 circles.
Anne-Marie: No way. What? Bugs?
David: Yes. It’s true.
Anne-Marie: In software?
David: Yeah. It happens. We will also talk about the FindChangeByList script that’s hard to say all at once. One word, FindChangeByList. And it’s a script that you absolutely need to know about. You’ve got to know about this thing if you don’t already. So, we’ll talk a little bit about that, and then we will discuss the Quizzler. We had the Quizzler challenge last time.
Anne-Marie: The Brazzler!
David: Let me give you the answer.
Anne-Marie: It’s The Brazzler.
David: Oh, that’s right. The Brazzler. The Brandsler the Brazzler. And then, finally, the Obscure InDesign Feature Of The Week! “Continued Footnotes.” Yep, talk a little bit about footnotes and those continued types. Yes, that’s right.
Anne-Marie: So, in news, first up I’m going to see, David…
David: It’s true. That’s very exciting.
Anne-Marie: We’re having an InDesign conference in Seattle, at David’s house. I think, we’re all going to go in the garage.
David: Did you want to dance?
Anne-Marie: See his movie projector, and the kids are going to be serving popcorn. No. It’s at the Adobe campus in Seattle, and we’re going to have all day tutorials on Monday. I’m doing one on InDesign and Incopy; and then great sessions on Tuesday through Thursday. I’m looking forward to that.
David: It’s going to be a very good show. We hope that… I’m almost certain, we’re going to see some of you there, so make sure you identify yourselves by dressing up as InDesign Secret. Dress up as a podcast! Yeah.
Anne-Marie: Wear a big clown afro a rainbow afro, so we can tell who’s listened to the podcast.
David: [laughs] Well, at least come up and introduce yourselves…
Anne-Marie: Yes. Please do.
David: … that you’re there. And tell us that you’re there because of InDesign Secrets. That’ll be fun.
Anne-Marie: Yes, that’ll be cool. And our Eseminar, which we have talked about recently the InDesign Secrets Guide to Adobe InDesign CS4 went great.
David: Yeah.
Anne-Marie: We had a great time, and now the recording is available. And we decided that even if you never registered for it, you can still go ahead and do that. You could watch it at any time, up to a week after you register. So, we’ll have the link in our show notes if you go to the registration page, and you can get $10 off by using Coupon Code “IDS11″ to get $10 off the price and get your priority questions answered by Sir David or Mistress AnneMarie during that time of the 1week subscription to the videocast.
David: Yeah. Basically, watching the recording is the equivalent of seeing it live for all intents and purposes except that you can’t ask questions there.
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: But, so we were saying, “OK. Look. Since you can’t ask questions there in the Q&A period at the end, then just go ahead and email us the question. And if you’re registered, you get priority email answering.”
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: Then, we will go answer those emails as though you were in the seminar. So, you see our demo, you would hear us talk, it all goes smoothly…
Anne-Marie: See our lovely faces too.
David: Yeah. And then, email questions if you want. It’s true, you can see our faces in the very, very choppy video. But…
Anne-Marie: Yes.
David: The important thing is that you see what we’ll have on our screen, and then you can see us demo InDesign CS4, and what we’ve to say about it. So, a lot of people seem to enjoy it. We got some good feedback from people, and we hope that you all are interested and sign up for the recorded Eseminar. That will be fun.
Anne-Marie: I know that everybody has been waiting for this with bated breath. Where are the CS four Keyboard Shortcuts posters? Well, they’re in!
David: Woo hoo! Woo hoo!
Anne-Marie: You can relax. We have a new President, and the CS4 Keyboard Shortcuts are ready.
David: Yeah. How about that?
Anne-Marie: Very awesome. And the posters are awesome. Thanks again to the folks at Sells Printing and Milwaukee James Wanser and Company for sponsoring that poster. And also, big thanks to Mike Rankin who helped us that’s all the keyboard shortcuts both Windows and Mac versions, and make sure that we didn’t have any typos or errors, and we think it’s pretty good.
David: huh.
Anne-Marie: Good to go.
David: Yep.
Anne-Marie: We’ll have them ready for you, up in the store real soon now.
David: Absolutely.
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: And we’ll have some at the conference next week, if you’re going to be at the show. But, we’ll get that store updated online so you can start ordering it as soon as we possibly can. OK. What else?
Anne-Marie: And also, I think the last thing is that I wanted to point out some blog posts, because there are lots of people who listen to the podcast and never make it over to the blog. There are some really great ones recently. In case you didn’t see them, for example, Russell Veer came up with a solution using CS4 of how to thread text from one InDesign document to the other, which I thought was amazing.
David: Yeah. Like half of one article would be in one document…
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: And the second half of the article would be in the other document.
Anne-Marie: And as you edit the article in Document 1, next time you open up Article 2, it automatically updates.
David: Right.
Anne-Marie: It’s amazing. What it’s really great for is, there are a lot of newspapers who, for whatever reason necessary, they can only have one page at a time open. Right?
David: Yeah.
Anne-Marie: It’s split up into single pages. I was just doing training at Columbia College here in Chicago, and that’s how they do their newspaper. And I said, “How can you possibly do that? What happens if the story jumps to another page?” And he said, “Well, it’s a lot of cutting and pasting.”
David: Right. Right.
Anne-Marie: And I couldn’t believe it. But, apparently, that’s not that uncommon.
David: Yeah.
Anne-Marie: And with this solution, you don’t have to worry about that. So…
David: It’s great. It’s very, very nice. We’ll have a link to that in the show notes as well. You should definitely read Russell’s solution to that. I was very impressed. There was another one. You posted something on “SmallCaps versus open type all SmallCaps.”
Anne-Marie: Yes.
David: And why you’d want to use one over the other, and we got a lot of comments on that and people should definitely read that. We’re not going to get into all the details here about that, but it’s a must read in terms of really having high quality SmallCaps in your documents.
Anne-Marie: Right. It’s just that that drop down menu and Paragraph Styles, where it says “Case” and you have a choice of SmallCaps or open type all SmallCaps.
David: Right.
Anne-Marie: And when should you use one versus the other? And we found some incredible reasons to use one versus the other. So, we’ve got a lot of reaction to that piece.
David: And then, finally, you also posted a thing about the new CS4 movies. Adobe has put up a bunch of movies for CS4. If you haven’t been using CS4 yet, or you are just getting up and running, you should definitely check out those movies. I did some of them; Mike Nennis did some of them; a bunch of people did movies on CS4 and you link to those.
Anne-Marie: That’s right.
David: And we’ll link to your post about that. And then, of course, Mike Rankin did the ultimate movie InDesign movie. It’s very funny. If you have not seen his little movie on taking InDesign on holiday, then you must see that. It only takes like two and a half minutes.
Anne-Marie: He brought the box on vacation with him, like another character in his family. It’s so funny!
David: It is very funny. Anyway. So… OK. We better move on.
Anne-Marie: OK. Yes.
David: Bugs. That was the other thing that’s news related. There are bugs in CS4 as you had mocked before.
Anne-Marie: I’m aghast, I tell you.
David: Yes, exactly. Shocked and stunned. This is one of the reasons why I really and we’ve said this in previous podcasts, probably back when CS3 came out that I think everyone should upgrade it to CS4, but I don’t necessarily think you should be using CS4.0 in your real production work quite yet. Experiment with it, try it out, and see what gets worked out. I tend not to like using .0, dot zero, versions for real work. I wait until the .01.
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: Because there always will be. There will always be a .01 that comes out with that fixes things.
Anne-Marie: There’ll always be a .01. I love that movie.
David: So, one of the problems that came up immediately was about importing InDesign files into other InDesign files.
Anne-Marie: Yeah.
David: There’s a blog post on this, but this is something that has come up, and sometimes Master Page Elements on I think it was even number of pages or odd number of pages will just drop out. If you take an InDesign document and put it into another InDesign document, sometimes those master page elements just fall off the page when you print or export PDF, which is kind of bad.
Anne-Marie: And when they fall off, they hurt.
David: They do.
Anne-Marie: One landed on my toe.
David: Yeah.
Anne-Marie: I had a page folio… ouch! Last time, I use a slab serif, I’ll tell you that! Yeah. So, they just don’t appear.
David: Yeah. Yeah.
Anne-Marie: And it’s disconcerting, to say the least. And there’s a few other weird little bugs that I can’t believe out of all that testing that these things never came up. You know?
David: Well, a lot of them did come up they just couldn’t fix them in time, I think. So, like you were saying in that other blog post you wrote, as soon as CS4 came out, you went and looked up on the tech notes and there were all these tech notes for CS4. It’s like wow, Adobe, like in two days they came up with all these tech notes. But, you know, it’s like I said, there’s always going to be a InDesign CS4 6.01.
Anne-Marie: So, check out that post to see the list of them and what people are commenting about them, but also be aware, like David said, use 4.0 or any .0 software version with caution.
David: Yeah.
Anne-Marie: And don’t freak out if it doesn’t work exactly right.
David: It’s InDesign CS4, but it’s InDesign 6.0 right now. It’s CS4 6.0.
Anne-Marie: It’s weird isn’t it? Illustrator CS4 is 14.0.
David: Yeah. And I think Photoshop is like 213 or 807.
Anne-Marie: No, I think Illustrator is older.
David: Yeah, I think, you’re right. You’re right. When you’re right you’re right. OK.
Anne-Marie: Illustrator; it’s in adolescents, a 14 year old, entering puberty, probably done with puberty by now, I guess.
David: I hope.
Anne-Marie: We’ll have to ask Modi.
David: We will ask Modi. OK, we better move on to talking about the Find/Change by List Script. This has been around in CS3 and of course it’s still in CS4. In CS2, it was there, but they had a different name and I’ve completely blanked out on the name. Do you remember what it used to be called?
Anne-Marie: Find/Change by list?
David: Let’s see, Find/Change by list? I remember back in CS2… It was the Find/Change Scriptorama. I can’t remember. We have to look that up.
Anne-Marie: I know. We’ll have to look it up. But, it was so funny because I was just talking about the script today. I was doing training with a bunch of editors in InCopy and I was like: “so what kind of things do you do in Word that you want to know how to do an InCopy? And one guy says: “well, we do a lot of Find/Changes.” Oh? What do you Find/Change? Well, we search for two spaces and replace with one. I was like, ah, let me show you this script baby. And Find/Change by List is a free script that gets installed by default with InDesign and InCopy and you can find it by going to your Window menu, down to automation, and choosing scripts. You’ll have to twirl open some of these little reveal triangles. You want to drill down into the JavaScript or the AppleScript or the DB Script folder I like JavaScript since it’s biplatform. And we’re in a bipartisan era now, so I think JavaScript is appropriate.
David: I like it, yeah!
Anne-Marie: So, we go down to Find/Change by List with the most number of inner caps that I’ve ever seen in a title, and if you double click it, it says do you want to search the selection or the selected story or the document, but you’re not quite sure what it’s going to do. And what it does is: it does a series of Find/Changes.???I think, by default they’re grep Find/Changes in CS3 and CS4. I think, in CS2, they were regular text Find/Changes since it didn’t have grep, and it does things like it automatically searches for double spaces, or any space run, and changes it to one space, it changes two hyphens to an en dash, multiple returns to a single return. I think, there’s five or six things that it does. You can find out exactly what it does by there’s a folder right next to what we call “Find/Change Support” and inside that folder, in the scripts panel still, you’ll see FindChangeList.txt. And how do you open these things again? I forget. There’s some keyboard shortcut. I usually right click and choose reveal and find, but I thought there was a way you can hold down the option or control or command key and double click on it. That’s it, yep, well, maybe not, so…
David: I think, it’s shift + double click and it will open up, I believe.
Anne-Marie: Shift + double click and wave a rubber chicken over your head, but at some point, you get to the FindChangeList.txt file in the finder or explorer and you can open it up in any text editor, and it has the instructions at the top of how this script is put together. It’s very short. It’s only like a half page long and then you’ll see a list of everything that this script will do. So, this text file is what the script references when it runs. So, I’ve opened it up and it says like it’s searching for all returns followed by a space and replace with a single return. Find all double tabs and replace with a single tab and so on. And you can add to this list or remove them or modify them and the instructions on how to do that are in the top part of this little text file.
David: Yep. I mean, I think that the real key here is it doesn’t just do a Find/Change. It does a list of Find/Changes, right? And you can set up that list any way you want. So, it comes with a few prebuilt Find/Changes which are very useful, but the fact that you can go in there and customize it is extraordinary. Because you could have fifty or one hundred different Find/Changes in a row and it will just run through each one of them boom boom boom boom boom. It’s very fast and very efficient.
Anne-Marie: Faster than the eye can see.
David: Oh, it’s just amazing. So, if you find yourself doing this Find/Change, and then I’m going to do a grep Find/Change, then a glyph Find/Change, then I do a character Find/Change, and so on. And if you are doing it over and over again, just stop it and go program it yourself in that text file. It makes all the difference. It’s very very clever the way they’ve set that up.
Anne-Marie: And that is the script that we wanted to…
David: That’s basically it. Now, there are instructions in that text file. But, I think the instructions are relatively obscure. So, if you really want to use a script and I think a lot of you will want to use this go check out Kari Jansens article in the most recent InDesign Magazine.
Anne-Marie: Oh, right, right, right! That was excellent!
David: Because she wrote this whole article, especially things like grep, I’m sorry, glyph searches. Glyph searches were absolutely… We were banging our heads on the wall trying to figure out how to get the glyph search to work and we finally cracked it. So, she wrote that up in the article and it’s really worth checking out that article and reading through it and getting the details on it. We don’t have enough time or space to do that here.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: She did a very good job. One of the things that I never knew about that script that I found very interesting that she wrote in the article is that you can have multiple FindChangeLists. You just change the name. If you change the name to anything other than FindChangeList.txt, then it will ask you to find which FindChangeList you want to use. So, you might be in an editorial situation where you have different kinds of Find/Changes you need to do at different times, and you just can use the same script, but as soon as you launch it, it will ask you which one do you want to use? You pick it out and it will run that series of Find/Changes, which is very cool.
Anne-Marie: You know, I didn’t know that it would allow you to do that. I know that you could reference a different text file and so what I was doing before I read her article was that I was duplicating the script itself. Just, you know, and calling it Find/Change for a project and then Find/Change for that project.
David: Oh, funny!
Anne-Marie: And then, within the script, I would change the reference to FindChangeList.txt to FindChangeList.acme.
David: Oh, man! Ouch!
Anne-Marie: So, I was doing it the hard way. I thought it was kind of cool that you could actually have it reference different files, but her way is much easier.
David: The thing is, it’s a script, but you don’t have to know anything about scripting.
Anne-Marie: Yes.
David: You do have to learn how to sort of program that text file, but it’s really easy. If you read her article you will be up and running in five minutes, ten minutes. It’s really pretty easy to build these things. So, thank you to Kari for doing that. Thank you to Ole Kvern for writing this extraordinary script, which is incredibly useful. And most people don’t even know about it. They don’t even know it’s hiding in there. So, anyway, we definitely want to get you up and running on those.??? We had better talk about the Quizzler. The Branisler, the Brazzler. [laughs].
Anne-Marie: We are calling it that because we had said two episodes ago that somebody who sent a great Quizzler idea that we would name it for them. And Branislav Milic a wonderful In Design guru out in Belgium sent us this Quizzler and we thought oh, it’s fantastic! So, it is the Branisler at least in this episode. And the Branisler was, he asked: What is the fastest most accurate way to learn the total number of characters used in an In Design document. Every story, no white space. Every anchor text frame. Everything.
David: Yes. Yep.
Anne-Marie: So, what’s the fastest, most accurate way? I mean, other than clicking inside each frame and then writing down the number from the info panel. [laughs].
David: That’s not fast? [laughs].
Anne-Marie: And adding it all up.
David: Well, a lot of people don’t know that you can do that. We’ve talked about that before I think in the podcast. It is worth mentioning that if you do place your cursor inside of a text story and just have it flashing inside of a story the info panel does tell you how many characters that are in that story. A lot of people don’t realize the info panel will tell you that, but that’s just that one story. So, you don’t get every story in the document and the solution. We actually had several good solutions come up out of this from the various people emailing us.
Anne-Marie: Yeah, we did.
David: But, one of them I thought was interesting, the text count script. I had actually completely forgotten that this script existed. Back in InDesign CS, there was a script that shipped with InDesign called test count. And I can’t find it on my hard drive anywhere. Do you have it?
Anne-Marie: I haven’t even tried looking for the CS CDs. I know, it’s not on my hard drive. But, I think, you can download it if you Google for it. I think, some people have it up on their websites and you can download it.
David: I’ll go look for it, but the text back does that but had forgotten about it. It doesn’t ship with InDesign any more. But, the solution that we were looking for, that we had considered to be the fastest, coolest way and which will work in all versions of InDesign is to use Find/Change. So, Find/Change in InDesign, you just say find a wildcard character such as…
Anne-Marie: Branislav.
David: [laughs]
Anne-Marie: He is a wild character.
David: You can search for an wildcard like any letter or any character and any character in the Find/Change dialog box in the text tab of the Find/Change dialog box is the character question mark, and change it to anything else, right? So, that is one way that you can search for anything. Because as soon as you do that Find/Change, if you do a “change all,” it goes to the entire character and the entire document.???Then, it tells you how many characters got replaced.
Anne-Marie: Correct, 14,194 instances of change.
David: Right. Right.
Anne-Marie: and then you have to immediately undo or do it to a copy of the document. But, the one that we chose was actually close to the one that I guessed, or that I came up with. The one that we chose randomly based on our random.org you used.
David: Random dot something. Yes, random.org, we always use that to pick a random integer, and then we pull something out and the winner came up with a solution, which was a little bit more refined. It will only work in CS3 or CS4, but it is… we counted it as the fastest way. It will focus directly on just the characters themselves.
Anne-Marie: Right.
David: And that is to use grep and what did you say that grep’s, it was a simple grep search that you had come up with.
Anne-Marie: Let’s say who won. What was the guy’s name?
David: I don’t know. I don’t think we should tell them, should we? [laughs]
Anne-Marie: Oh, Eugene. Eugene.
David: Eugene. Eugene Tyson in Ireland won the Brans…
Anne-Marie: The Brazzler. Right. And his solution was use grep just the characters used in words and numbers. So, he wrote it out, find what in parentheses, bracket A, hyphen Z and so on. And then, replace with dollar bill one, which means replace with the, whatever it finds. So, replace it with itself, in other words.
David: We can put that in the show notes.
Anne-Marie: Yeah, find every character and number and replace with itself. And then you just say “Change all.” And then, it will tell how many times it did that.???Yep, so I thought that was pretty cool. Though the one that I had come up with was S for find what in the grep, which means find everything that is not wide space.
David: Which totally blew my mind. I completely missed that that was an option.???[crosstalk]
Anne-Marie: I learned that from Peter Carl’s book. Peter Carl’s book says, in grep, you’ll see find wide space and is s, but he says if you capitalize it, it means do the opposite. So, find everything that is not that character. Find everything that is not wide space is S.???And then, you replace his dollar bill zero, which is also replaced with itself whenever you don’t use the parenthesis thing. So, it’s just four characters needed to cover the entire thing.
David: It’s very, very smooth. I love that. So, we’ll post both of those solutions in the show notes.
Anne-Marie: Now we just need a reason to use that.
David: Right. [laughs] Ah, ye of little faith. That was so excellent. Thank you Branislav and thank you Eugene, our Irish friend you’ve probably seen his name show up in blog posts, because he is often commenting on the posts there.???So, that’s how we know Eugene. I’ve never met him in person, but now he will get a copy of the… I think the price was a copy of the InDesign Beyond the Basics DVD from linder.com that I did US $150 value, something like that.
Anne-Marie: Eugene, we need you to send in your address or we’ll email you and ask you to send us your address so we can ship it off to you.???David; Yeah, we’ll do that. And if you don’t have the CS3 version, we’ll send you CS3 or CS4, whatever you want. So, the CS4 version of “Beyond the Basics” is out now or very soon to now. So, it should be up on linder.com at least momentarily, pretty soon.
Anne-Marie: All right. It is time for the “Obscure InDesign Feature of the Week.” [echo sound] Continued footnotes.
David: Continued Footnotes. Where is Continued Footnotes?
Anne-Marie: This was a question by one of the people who came to our Eseminar.
David: Yes.
Anne-Marie: A footnote can continue, can run over, if it is too long to fit at the bottom of a text frame, you can have it continue to the next text frame.
David: Let’s say you have a footnote that’s pretty close to the bottom of a column. And then you have a really long footnote that kind of pushes up, until you can’t have both the footnote number and the footnote at the bottom in the same column. So, it will break that footnote into two columns, which is kind of clever. Well, that’s an option. You have an option.
Anne-Marie: It’s an option. And the guy, he wanted to know…
David: She. She. She.
Anne-Marie: She wanted to know about the formatting of that Continued Footnote. How can you modify the formatting of a Continued Footnote?
David: Well, because by default, and it’s really kind of weird, but by default, there’s a little line above the footnote. I think, it’s like an inch wide, six picas wide.
Anne-Marie: The default setting. I hate that setting; I always change it.
David: But, on the second column, when you have it continued over, you get a line that goes all the way across the column a really wide line, which is kind of bizarre. So, this was driving her crazy and she was saying that she couldn’t figure out how to change this, and so she would draw a white box, a white frame, to cover up the right half of it [laughter] and to make it narrow again. I was like, “Oy, there’s going to be a better way.”???And the better way is Continued Footnotes. So, this is what you do. You go to the Type Menu and you choose Document Footnote Options. Document Footnote Options is sort of the control headquarters for everything having to do with how the footnote is going to look on the page, including the layout of where it is and that little line and so on. So, once you have the Footnote Options Dialogue Box open, you can click on the Layout Tab at the top. And this one is kind of obscured by itself. A lot of people miss the fact that there is a Layout Tab inside that Dialogue Box.
Anne-Marie: Yes. Because the one that opens by default is pretty busy. It’s numbering and formatting. So, it’s the style of numbers, and what’s the prefix or suffix, and what’s the character style for the reference number and all that kind of stuff. So, there’s a lot of decisions to make in this one panel. And you’re probably like “OK, OK, I’m done. I’ll click OK.” But, like you said, Layout, it’s just a little thing and, “Oh yeah. I can click that and look, a whole new set of options appears for layout.”
David: Which is in itself totally overwhelming because there are lots and lots of things that you can change there. So, you look at this thing in the Layout Tab of the Footnote Options Dialogue Box, and it’s very easy to see that there’s a rule above feature, which lets control the rule above. But, what’s not so obvious is that there’s a little popup menu right next to that. And the popup menu has two options first footnote in column, or Continued Footnotes the Obscurity In Design Feature of the Week.
Anne-Marie: There it is.
David: Right? Continued Footnotes. So, that’s actually another subpanel inside the dialogue box. This lets you choose the rule above the first footnote in the column, and/or the rule above the Continued Footnotes. So, if you want to change that really long, wide rule that goes above the Continued Footnotes, you go into Footnote Options, you click on Layout, then you change that rule above pop up menu to Continued Footnotes and then, and only then, change the width of that line.
Anne-Marie: The first footnote in column, the rule above is six picas. And then, Continued Footnotes is 24 picas. So, maybe that’s just a way to distinguish a Continued Footnote from the first footnote? Maybe that was the reason behind this?
David: I guess. I don’t know. I don’t like it. I mean, maybe that’s a standard. Maybe someone at Adobe found a footnote expert who said, “Oh yes. The second column Continued Footnotes should always have a really really long line above it.” I’ve never seen that. Or maybe I hadn’t registered. But, I don’t like it. I agreed with our Eseminar attendee who said, “Let’s make it shorter.” So, that’s how you make it shorter. You can go in, and find Continued Footnotes in the rule above pop up. How about that?
Anne-Marie: That was wonderful. Thank you very much.???OK. That’s it for Episode 90. Be sure to check out the show notes on our blog at InDesignSecrets.com where we’ll have links and discounts to all the places that we mentioned. We’d love to hear what you thought of the show. Leave a comment in our show notes or email us at info@indesignsecrets.com. And until we meet again…
David: Like next week, right? Next week we’ll be meeting!
Anne-Marie: That’s right! Because we’re doing a Podcast at the show!
David: At the show! Indeed, it’s very exciting!
Anne-Marie: Podcast number 91. This is Anne-Marie Concepcion and…
David: David Blatner for In Design Secrets.
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