Should You Use Mac or Windows?
Well, it’s the Friday before a holiday weekend (here in the USA), so I think it’s time to stir up the ol’ Mac vs. Windows thing. After all, we’ve never really “had it out,” here on InDesignSecrets. Let’s rumble.
AW wrote:
Currently our magazine staff is all on Macs running CS2. 7 editors, 2 designers. Moving forward, any new hires will be given PCs. Do you foresee any problems? Font or transparency issues? I’m looking for some ammunition to keep us all Mac-based. Thanks.
Well, most of the cross-platform issues are no longer that big of a deal, as long as you’re running all OpenType fonts. If you’re still using old 20th century fonts (Type 1, TrueType, windows farshtinkener fonts [WFF], etc.) you should strongly consider upgrading the fonts. Similarly, you should avoid EPS files because while they can work cross-platform, their previews are really platform dependent in most cases. Oh, and make sure you use file name extensions (such as .indd, .tif, and so on) on all your files.
However, pretty much everything else just kind of works now. Ole Kvern and I have co-authored 4 editions of Real World InDesign (900 page book, over a thousand images, etc.) now, with him on PC and me on a Mac. No big deal. (Actually, we do still use one non-opentype font in some chapters, and that does cause minor headaches.)
That said, I have to agree with you: I prefer Macs in most instances; both the hardware and software are just better, all-around. I use both, I support both, I know my way around both, and I keep coming back to the Mac. Again, that’s “in most instances.” There will always be good reasons to use Windows, especially when there is specific software you need that is available for PC, but not Mac. But that’s getting more rare these days. And, when it does come up, I just run that Windows software on my Mac, using Parallels (though I’m about to switch to Fusion).
Another good reason to use PC is: “That’s what I have already.” It’s probably not a good idea to switch to Mac midstream, though if you were going to buy a new computer, I would recommend getting a new, fast Mac and then running both Mac and Windows on it.
However, in many cases, the arguments from the IT department for why they want to start putting PCs in companies turn out to be “I personally don’t feel like learning anything about a Mac, so even though they’re demonstrably better and safer (no viruses, etc.), I’m going to force everyone else to bend to my will.” I don’t have much patience for sloth, so that doesn’t hold a lot of water for me.
The next argument is “PCs are cheaper!” Feh. Not in the long run. Plus, in many cases, they’re less reliable (both software and hardware). And double-plus, the Mac handles networking and printing soooooo much better than Windows.
I did some work with Microsoft last year and I was amused to note that some of the people there have Apple Mac laptops. They run Windows on them, of course, but when I asked them about it, the response was, “Apple just makes the best laptops on the market so that’s what we ordered.”
Ultimately, my argument comes down to this: You can do the same layouts in InDesign or QuarkXPress/PageMaker. Which do you use? You use the more elegant solution to the problem. Similarly, Mac OS is the more elegant solution and the safer solution.
So, AW, you have a department full of Macs already; it just doesn’t make sense to start throwing in PCs. I can’t tell you how often the PCs that get brought in to a Mac department just sit there unused most of the time. It’s the rare person who enjoys being handed QuarkXPress/Windows in the middle of a room full of InDesign users. Sure, “the next version” of QuarkXPress/Windows will be better. But I want to use the elegant solution today.
I’m sure there are a lot of happy Windows users out there. That’s fine. Keep being happy. I will continue to use Windows, too, out of necessity. But if you’re asking me…
Okay, let the floodgates open. What other issues should AW be aware of in a cross-platform environment?
Other issues to consider:
– Cross-platform availability and parity of plug-ins you’re currently using or will want to use.
– Ditto for scripted solutions. Applescript won’t work on Windows.
– Need to use same single-platform apps colleagues are using. If it would help the designers to be able to run MS Access or VB Scripts in Word 2007 (neither of which is available for OS X), then better to go with Windows.
– Font management programs are more robust on Macs, as far as I know … though I’m not a fan of font management programs, period. I know most of my clients couldn’t imagine working without them though.
– Ability to attract/retain design staff and temps … who often have a strong Mac bias.
I don’t understand though, even if the decision is for Windows, why a company would ever purchase a Windows-only PC. Why not get an Intel Mac and just leave it booted in Windows? Then at least you’re keeping yourself open/flexible.
AM
I keep a PC around just to save time any money on older files made in PC-friendlier times.
Re-purchasing fonts can get prohibitively pricey…
But to switch from Mac to PC!?
I use PC’s at home and Mac at the office.
My first home computer was a hand-me-down PC. That started the software investment. When it came time to upgrade hardware at home, I couldn’t afford personal copies of the CS software so I stayed with the PC and a very limited selection of software. Needless to say, I don’t do much at home!
I have a feeling AW may be in much the same situation I am in at work. The majority of the organization uses PCs. About 10 of us use Macs (so we are outnumbered by about 500 to 1). This dates back to the early days of desktop computing. PCs were used for administrative tasks (Office), Macs were used for the creative types.
You will probably have difficulty convincing your tech people that Macs are better…mine are very good at saying “I don’t know anything about Macs.”
Just push hard to keep your Macs and when they need upgraded, go with Intel Macs. Anne-Marie hit the nail squarely on the head in her last paragraph.
Truly the best argument is that Macs do their job extraordinarily well. They also do a PCs job much better than the PC does. Oh, BTW, a lot of gaming software isn’t made for the Mac…maybe that is what is really driving them. ;-)
First off, I’m currently almost exclusively a Windows user, but here is my experience with InDesign/InCopy in a cross-platform environment:
We had this project (back in early CS2 days) where we had to set up a small network (about 12 computers, two of them Macs with OS X). The Macs found both each other and the Windows machines right away. The Windows machines only saw the Macs, and it took us almost a day to get the Windows machines to find each other (we still don’t know what the problem(s) are/were, we just kept re-entering the network config data again and again, and after about the 20th time it suddenly worked. Same on all Windows boxes. Do it 20-30 times and it suddenly works.) We checked, the Macs weren’t causing the trouble.
Next, we set up an InDesign/InCopy CS2 work flow.That worked pretty smoothly, but the windows machines crashed each about 2-3 times a day. We only had a single Mac crash in one week, and I’m not even sure if that was the entire OS or just an application.
The first real cross-platform incompatibility we encountered was that images we placed in InCopy/Mac didn’t show up on Windows and vice versa. Same with the InDesign files. We did most of the InDesign work on a Windows machine, and when we opened the files on a Mac and then saved them and opened them back up on Windows, all the links were gone. I tracked it down to the way InDesign/InCopy stored paths of linked files, which seems to be system specific paths (Windows using “\\ComputerName\Folder” UNC notation and the Mac using colons). We had all the files on a server, maybe using local files or a Version Cue server helps avoid the problem, who knows. I haven’t had the chance to check if they fixed that in CS3, but I sure hope so.
We also had one particularly big InDesign file (about 200 pages, I know that’s too big, but how we ended up with that is a different story). When I worked on it on a Windows computer, it was a nightmare. Menus took literally several minutes to open and the system kept crashing non-stop. Same with other big files. We opened the same file on a Mac Mini with only a quarter of the RAM and a third of the CPU power of the Windows machine, and it was still quite usable. Not great, but usable. It seems that OS X is much better at memory management than Windows XP.
OS X also boots a lot faster than Windows and requires fewer restarts. And Spotlight is great, whereas search on Windows XP is a nightmare, and being able to find files quickly and reliably is a big bonus when working on a bigger project (somebody is always bound to put a file in the wrong directory at some point).
My next computer is definitely going to be a Mac. In my own personal experience it’s simply more reliable.
Hope that helps?
The ability to run both Mac OS X and Windows (XP or Vista, or both) simultaneously is definitely a huge advantage toward using Apple hardware. Using a Mac is value-added, whereas a PC is just a PC. I spend the majority of my time in Mac OS X, but have Parallels as a permanent icon in my dock for when I need my ‘PC’.
Chris Pirillo just wrote up why his current OS is now OS X (and he’s pretty platform agnostic). Very interesting read.
Ok, here goes. And I know I’m going to get pummeled…
Macs are hard to upgrade. I’m talking parts… Just want a new sound card, want to upgrade the video card, just need a bump in processor? I’ve searched NewEgg and a few other vendors that specialize in computers, parts and upgrades… and I’ve found one sound card upgrade part for a mac. Granted you can get kits for the G4s from Sonnettech, and the Intel based macs can allow for easier processor upgrades. But…
Your quote here about PCs “they?re less reliable (both software and hardware).” Hate to burst your bubble, but the hardware for the new macs is identical to that of windows based machines. The extra bios chip on the motherboard (that costs you extra $$$) makes the mac hardware proprietary and more difficult to develop and upgrade.
The average Mac user will purchase a new Mac for an upgrade, and so will the below average windows user. But for power users, and those that are not afraid to dive into our boxes, PC all the way.
I’m now ducking and covering my head!
Tereasa, I hope you don’t get slammed by anyone. I think you bring up a good point. I’ve taken apart my Mac before, and it fills me with dread each time I try — Apple does everything it can to discourage people doing this. (Except for doing things like changing RAM, which is usually very easy.)
However, my comment about the hardware wasn’t just about the motherboard. I’m talking the whole kit and caboodle. Like the new MacBook Air. It’s underpowered right now, but it’s just a great piece of hardware in most respects. Very finely built. You just don’t get that from a “billions served” kind of PC joint. ;)
Oh, one more thing regarding upgrades: Mac users do often buy new hardware when they want more power. But Windows users typically buy new hardware when they want to upgrade their OS!
Macs tend to upgrade the OS pretty cleanly, so I can run 10.4 on an old machine. But with Windows, if I want a new major OS (like going from 98 to XP), it’s usually more reliable to just buy a new computer, or rebuild the HD from scratch. Just my experience (and what I’ve heard repeatedly from others).
David, you do bring up a good point about build quality. Apple is their own manufacturer, so they can control quality easier. With Windows based machines, you have lots of choices, and often too many. Some companies are better than others – and that’s why I usually build my own boxes. Which I understand is not an option for some people. I have not personally seen a blue screen of death in over 2 years now. And the MacBook Air… underpowered, yes. Upgradeable???
I buy a new hardware component maybe once a year, as needed based on program upgrades (i.e. Photoshop), not OS upgrades. Typically clean installs of Windows OS do run better. Yes, that’s true. I do wish windows did write their upgrading software better. But we Windows users to buy new hardware upgrades for power also, and we can do it one part at a time if we like. ;)
In the end, anymore it’s just really a matter of familiarity and preference. Macs are very alien to me… and I did get very funny looks when I powered on my windows laptop at a Photoshop conference. But I like the hardware end as much as the software end… so I’m very unlikely to be a mac owner. But more and more the two do play better with each other, and that’s a good thing for everyone involved.
Oh no, the MacBook Air is definitely not easily upgradeable! It’s more like an iPhone. You don’t want to even think about opening it. ;)
As for conferences: The InDesign/Photoshop/etc conferences that I do with MOGOevents.com are usually about 25-40% windows users in the audience and almost 100% Mac users on stage. (Jim Maivald, who has been doing some XML sessions, brings a Windows machine.)
However, the Web Design conference last fall was just the opposite. Almost ever speaker was a Windows user. I guess they just don’t know any better. ;)
(That was a joke! A joke! My turn to duck…)
No need to duck David… I actually laughed at that.
I’m with Tereasa here! With Windows PCs, I love the freedom I have to build my own machines from hand-picked components: mobos, hard drives, graphics cards, RAM, sound cards, etc. After 20+ years of PC computing (though I was partly on Macs from 1990-92), I now also know a great deal about how to to fine-tune and grease my hardware and OS installations — so my systems work really fast and slick, far better than the semi-stupid default Windows configurations.
I’m on WinXP, and am in no hurry to move to Vista, as that OS will steal too much of my RAM and other resources — and all Adobe apps work splendidly on XP. I also have the invaluable freedom to use a great range of non-Mac-available software, like Xara Xtreme (www.xara.com), a vector tool which, for most bread-and-butter stuff, totally kicks Illustrator’s butt.
So those are my reasons for using PCs. Blue screens of death? Haven’t seen them in ages. My three XP machines all run slickly and stably.
For me, Mac/Windows, doesn’t matter. InDesign works the same. KBSC may differ
Here comes the worms! I’m mainly a Windows user that also uses Macs at work, but being the only designer the Mac actually collects a lot of dust until I actually need it. This is mainly because it’s easier to work with other PCs. One pet peeve with Macs is that when you copy files over networks they like to leave these extra files. Macs can’t see them. PCs can. It annoys me to high heaven having to delete them. But anyway I digress. For me it’s like Teresea and Klaus. I’m a power user. I encounter a program crash or a lock up then I can easily fix it on a PC. When it happens on my Mac then usually the only thing to do is restart.
I’m not very keen on the “elegance” of Mac hardware, much like with iPods (which I also own). While they definitely look pretty, as functional tools they are beasts. The new Air is a joke. Even my friends who are total Mac zealots think that while it looks great, Apple only made it to show that they can do it and isn’t considerate or real world needs. Apple keyboards look great, but get dirty really easy and are a pain to clean. And let’s not get into their dogmatic approach to mouse design. The first thing most Mac users do when they get a new Mac? Get a nice two-button scroll mouse. And no, the Mighty Mouse just doesn’t cut it.
Lastly, the whole “Macs are safer” argument that floats around. It mostly stems off the fact that most hackers and people who create these security threats are running PCs. Macs aren’t 100% secure. The first famous Mac only virus was created in 2006, and I’m sure more will follow the more people start using Macs.
I sound like a total Mac hater, but I’m not. In fact I plan on getting a Macbook when I have the cash since I do like the OS and they are solid pieces of equipment and it’ll be an easier transition when working at a place that’s Mac only. However, I’ll still be keeping a PC desktop around the house for games and whatnot.
What it really boils down to is that for some crazy reason zealots on either side believe that one is superior to another, but they’re both just valid tools to help you achieve goals and in no way greatly affect your talent or productivity. Jimi Hendrix always played Fender Stratocaster guitars. He loved Fenders. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t rip away on a Gibson guitar. Same with BB King and Lucille. Give him something other than Lucille and he’ll still make that guitar weep, but he’ll still wish he had Lucille.
I’m an “under-the-hood” type. I like building my own machines and that simply can’t be done on the Mac side. And while an OEM Windows machine and a comparably equipped Mac will come out to about the same price you can save a lot of money building your own.
That said…use what you like (unless your boss tells you what you’re going to use) and get on with it.
At the end of the day, computers are just tools to get a job done…nothing more, nothing less.
Happy Presidents Day!
I understand the point made by the PC Users, but the original question posed by David did not deal with custommade PCs (I’ll bet!) As a user of out of the box PCs and out of the box Macs, I find I have fewer program crashes on the Mac. Additionally, the IT people in my mixed-platform workplace generally find they spend much less time (equals $$$) servicing the Mac crowd. And under no circumstances could I see two different platforms in a small unit where people do similar work. If there are overriding reasons to switch to PCs, then switch everyone at once!
What a can of worms ;) As a mac and a PC owner if I was in an office and given the choice I’d go for a mac every time. Especially now that you can use Apple hardware to run Windows. Not that I’ve had chance to try this yet as I’m waiting for my new Macbook Pro 17″ to arrive.
In 2000 I gave up and bought one of those bubble imacs with OS9. I loved the fact that it just worked. I didn’t need to worry about the hardware mix and when I started uni in 2003 I bought a G4 iBook for the same reason, which did a goodish job of running photoshop.
Now I use a PC mostly because my housemate had lots of spare parts and I’ve had it all built for me. When I was working for a publisher we had both Macs and PCs and the Macs were just nicer to use.
If you’re a geek go for PCs and if you just won’t a wonderful machine that just works I’d go for a mac everytime.
Just my 2 pennies.
gav.
To everyone that says hardware upgrades are problematic on Macs, from my experience in office environments hardware upgrades beyond RAM and hard drives rarely happen in a typical design workflow. This may be different in video, but the only time we swap out video cards or other internal components is when one goes out, not when a new one is released. When the company has the money and the computers have evolved enough to make it worth while they buy new computers and pass the old ones down to the next tier on the “power user” level or offer to sell them to the employees. Thus we have Macs working happily at standard word processing, web browsing, and e-mail tasks that are seven or more years old.
Another 100% Windows user chiming in…
I’ve always been on the Windows side, even though I think OS X is beautiful and certainly more of a designer’s OS than Windows will ever be.
However, like a few others here, I really enjoy building my system from scratch, picking out each and every piece of hardware. I don’t get that option on a Mac and I don’t like how locked down things are on that front.
What’s more important to me these days is what I am used to and after a bit of experience in my last job switching from Mac to PC on a fairly regular basis, I was getting irritated with the keyboard shortcut differences , specifically within Adobe software. My fingers were used to the location of CTRL+Z as opposed to CMD+Z. Moving over to the Mac, nothing felt right under my fingers. But of course, this is a case of just getting used to things. I’m sure if I used Mac 24/7 my fingers would follow eventually.
One last thing I have to say about Windows is that I find that most of the software I run on there has an infinite amount of options for configuration, advanced settings, etc… On the Mac side, I feel like things are dumbed down a bit, providing only a limited set of options that are believed adequate for ?most users?. iTunes is one piece of software that comes to mind — this is why I use Winamp on my PC, where I can tweak settings, skins, behavior, etc. until I am blue in the face. I like this level of control.
As the publishers of LensWork, and LensWork Extended we’ve always used PCs. In the last three years, we’ve won three prestigious “Benny” awards in a row for our publication — the only three-Benny winner that we know of. Whenever anyone suggests that we should consider a switch to Macs, I always respond that if we were to do so, perhaps we could produce a really good magazine. :-)
These discussions always remind me of the photographer who wanted to know what kind of camera Ansel Adams used — as though the genius is in the tool. Excellence is always the product of a human mind, not a machine.
Having said that, I do think it is ironic, however, that a couple of discussion threads ago was a hot topic whose title is “InDesign CS3 versus Leopard Status Report”. Seems to me (as an outside observer) that the Mac community has had more than a few compatibility problems with OS upgrades versus application issues. By comparison, we installed CS3 on our Windows XP systems and never skipped a beat. Come to think of it, we did so with CS2, CS, and etc. as far back as I can remember. Stuff just works for us. What can I say?
Just my two cents worth.
There is no doubt that Windows works. I would never argue against that. I would argue that more people have more technical difficulties with Windows and that it takes longer for the average person (not a power user) to get out of those difficulties. But there is no doubt that Windows works.
Of course, Brooks, you’re using XP! Vista has been out for a long time now… a lot longer than Leopard.
(By the way, if anyone here hasn’t seen Brooks’ magazine, LensWork, you must check it out. Amazing photography. Plus a very cool interactive PDF.)
Josh, I so agree with you about the keyboard shortcuts thing. I wish Mac and Windows keyboards were standardized so that the Command and Ctrl key were in the same place for moving back and forth. That is one of my biggest problems, too.
Wow, to hear someone say they wouldn’t use a Mac because they like to open computers and replace components? Huh? No thanks. No way, no how. I want to buy a computer, set it under my desk, and be done with it. Make it fast, make it quiet, make it reliable. I’ve been buying macs since the IIci era. My newest 2.66 MacPro paired with the 23″ apple display have been hands down the best machines ever for me. The thought of assembling a computer from 20 vendors makes me ill to think about. Buy it, hook it up, and work. That’s how I prefer it.
If you need to use Creative Suite 3, either the Mac or PC will work for you. I use both, the PC at home and the Mac at school, and have no problems getting the job done either place. Windows XP is a pretty stable system, and I?ve seen Macs lock up more than you?d expect. There isn?t as much difference between the two types of machines as the zealots would like you to believe. Myths abound.
Now that Mac uses Intel processors, the hardware difference between the two types of the machines are razor thin. Mac?s are at least 75% off-the-shelf components. Hard drives, graphic cards, memory ? all made by the same folks who produce for the PC. Only areas where style matters seem to differ. My wife?s Mac seems to be built well enough, but three family members have had Ipods and not one has lasted more than a year without mechanical failure, so I am skeptical of Apple?s vaunted quality.
The real difference is the OS. Mac?s OS is the clear winner. Stronger, faster, more stable. XP isn?t bad, but it falls short compared to the Mac. If you are not constantly changing your software configuration, XP is relatively stable. As others have said, I haven?t seen the blue screen of death in ages. But it is slower, and over time its registry has a habit of getting cluttered, causing slow downs and quirky behavior.
Vista is terribly disappointing. Pretty, but a slow, resource-hogging, bloated pig.
If they wanted to, the Apple people could produce their operating system, which is the real strength of their system, to run on PCs, particularly now that they live in an Intel world. If they did so, I have no doubt they would eventually own the OS market, unless they charged a ridiculous price for it.
However, I doubt they will do so. Doing so would undercut their hardware market. Few would buy a Mac at a premium price if they could get Mac functionality on the cheap. Apple would have to give up the enormous margins on their hardware or abandon the hardware business entirely, and possibly they?d wind up doing both. I don?t see Steve Jobs, who seems to be primarily a hardware guy, doing that.
Also, if the Mac OS were widely adopted, it would demolish the myth that it is more secure. If you review the professional literature, you quickly discover that Apple?s primary security advantage is the minute size of its market share. It is called ?Security by obscurity.? Make the Mac OS ubiquitous, and it becomes a big, fat, lucrative target.
I like my home PC because I can get under hood and tweak its performance. I have replaced virtually the entire guts of the machine over 5 years ? not because of equipment failure but to increase speed or add storage, and thus a 5-year-old plus entry level Dell can handle CS3 at adequate speed today. BTW, this machine handled CS2 with no problems in its original configuration, with the only exception being the addition of a new video graphics card.
Different strokes, John. The idea of being limited in my choice and being charged a fortune for it makes me crazy.
I’ll take Newegg.com over an OEM any day. The rewards of building your own machine are many but if you just want to pull something out of box that’s fine by me.
I just built a machine that hardware-wise compares nicely to anything Apple is selling…Intel Quad Core, eight gigs of RAM, 1 terrabyte RAID(0)…final cost:less than $1,400.
Apple would charge you more than that for RAM alone.
As I said earlier, this all about personal choice…what you’re comfortable with, what you like. Computers are tools, nothing more, nothing less. The claims of one system being superior to the other are laughable.
Neither is better than the other as far as I’m concerned. I’m far more interested in the applications than I am in the operating system.
Mac lovers? Which would you rather spend your time working on…A Mac with QuarkXPress or a PC with InDesign?
Windows lovers? Which one for you? A Mac with ID or PC with Quark?
AW – my advice, find out what you need to do the job well, on either platform, then tell IT to buy what you want, either Mac or PC, otherwise you’ll end up with an underpowered PC or an underpowered Mac.
I’m a freelancer & my office hardware, runs like a dream, Mac or PC, when I go into client’s offices to work onsite, it’s always the same story, IT supply the kit, so you get Macs with the base config of ram & 1 hard drive, same with PCs. One office is so bad, that something that I do in 10-15 minutes at home takes over an hour in their office.
I would never buy a Mac or PC for any kind of high end work with less than 4gb of ram & with only 1 hard drive. My Mac always has a second hard drive, partitioned to allow for an emergency start up drive, a large scratch drive & somewhere to store images for those large jobs like catalogues.
It really doesn’t matter if it’s a Mac or PC these days, I personally think you’ll be more efficient on the Mac, but either way, if IT buy it, your days will be spent trying to make the underpowered Mac/PC work.
Good luck :)
So, to sum up: Macs are for little ol’ ladies who are afraid to get their hands dirty — and PCs are for Real Men who aren’t afraid to open the hood. :-)
Cost is not an issue to me. And honestly, aside from ram and hard drives, what else does a modern computer need to be customized with? Macs come standard with gigabit ethernet, dvi ports, etc. I guess I never did, and never will understand the “I can build it cheaper” mentality in the pc world. I honestly find windows so clunky when I do use it via Parallels. I don’t know, cheaper is not a good enough reason for me to buy anything anymore. Like buying a Honda or a Hyundai. One is slightly cheaper – but check your insurance rates and resale value in 4 years and see where that amount you saved got you. That’s how I look at mac vs. pc. In 3 years when I replace my MacPro (if I need to), I can expect a decent price on ebay to put towards a new one. One, where other than some ram, i’ll likely be able to open up out of the box and start working after only software installs.
No doubt about the IT people plopping down the lower end macs and then forgetting about them. I’ve been in many places where I can’t believe professionals are expected to keep working on such underpowered machines. It really costs companies so much more in lost productivity and time then to keep everyone up to speed.
I love mac vs. pc debates. I hope they never go away…
Sorry Klaus, I’m not buying it :)
PC’s for “real men”, eh? Anybody can build their own PC. That’s old hat by now, and there’s just not much challenge to it.
Now some of the Macs I’ve had and worked on over the years..now opening up those babies is not for the faint of heart.
Sure for the most part you don’t really *need* to open them up except to put in more ram, etc. But man, cracking open those iMacs is not to be done lightly, not to mention the dreaded Mac Mini, which I’ve upgraded several hard drives (which was not exactly necessary but 4200rpm is not enough for me & mine…nice try Apple).
And what about those old 9600-9500 era Power Macs…man, those things drew blood when you tried to get at them. Now that’s adventure! Most PC people might faint if they were confronted with one of those, so don’t worry guys they’re long past that architecture. :P
Nowadays though, with the Mac Pros, G5’s, G4’s and even some G3 towers it’s just too simple…yank down the side and you’re good to go.
And AW – I would definitely tell your superiors that keeping things Mac based may make it easier for troubleshooting down the line. Removing the possibility of cross-platform issues (at least within the company) and keeping the whole department on the same page seems like a no-brainer for me.
Bob, you are right, you can buy components for less if you go with a PC and Apple does charge extortion level rates for their RAM…but then again you can buy the same RAM at the same rates that you can for a PC and put it in your Mac just as easy as you can in a PC. You might not be able to do much more with an iMac as far as upgrading it but in my experience you really don’t need to for most design tasks. As far as businesses go in my experience they don’t do incremental hardware upgrades anyway.
If you like PC’s and are comfortable with them great. If you like building and upgrading your own systems all the better. PC’s are very capable systems…I don’t care for them but it has been a while since I have used them so I don’t know how to do as much on them as I do on a Mac.
For a business that hires designers one of the main reasons to stay with Macs is because most of your potential future employees have been trained in school to use them and they will tend to be more familiar with Macs. That isn’t saying that you can’t operate very successfully on PC’s, you can and there are a lot of people and businesses out there that are doing just that.
And Klaus, as a Mac user for a very long time I have no problem opening up and tinkering with a Mac. I loved my Cube because I could do just that, and have read of some very interesting things that you can do with a Mini to make it a speed demon by replacing the CPU just like you can on a PC and turning it into a full blown server by adding a SATA port multiplier and a few new drives (4 I think). Fewer people may tinker with Macs but they are out there.
Like David, I use and support both platforms … but I believe Macs offer greater productivity. One of my clients (an accounting firm) was seriously considering a move to PCs because everyone else in the company used PCs. All I did was quote downtime and maintenance stats from another PC client, and they changed their minds. Last year, another client converted from OS9 to OSX at 17 sites – 1 server plus approx 20 machines per site – without a ripple. I did the training and one of their IT guys did all the equip installations. Each site took him a day. But when he had to upgrade 4 PCs in one of the sites, it took him 3 days to iron out all the problems! During Mac’s dark days before Steve Jobs returned, my boss at the time remarked that Apple’s days were numbered. I often wonder if the reverse won’t be true ten years from now.
[So, to sum up: Macs are for little ol? ladies who are afraid to get their hands dirty ? and PCs are for Real Men who aren?t afraid to open the hood.]
Ha – that is so funny, and that is exactly the attitude that most IT depts have, they look at Macs as expensive toys, then gloat over their “amazing” hand made uber PC, that breaks after 3 months ;D
I can count on one hand the amount of Macs that have died on me at the speed that PCs do, actually lets rephrase that, I can count on one hand the amount of Macs that have died on me after 3 years hard intensive work, whereas most PC users I know contribute to the World’s Landfill every 3-9 months…
PC users, I hope you enjoy spending many days a year fiddling with your PC, me, I’m going to carry on using a Mac, because it makes me money, it’s quick, stylish efficient & a pleasure to use :)
You see it is about choice, I like to be able to get on with my work. If I wanted to spend eons fiddling “under the hood” then I’ll buy a PC, if I want to play a game, I’ll buy a console, if I want to get on with my work, then I’ll buy a Mac :-P
And most little old ladies I know that use a Mac, can kick serious ass :)
I thought that this article was interesting!
https://www.simplydumb.com/2007/09/24/vista-downgrade-available/
I’m bowing out of this since I can see it’s just about to turn into another very boring platform war.
Have at it folks.
I design primarily on Windows machines, and have been for the past decade or so. Prior to a few months ago I had never even used an OSX Mac. When I did I certainly found them workable, but I’ve had far more issues with InDesign than I ever have had on a PC.
I’ve had Macs lock-up and freeze on me while trying to finish an important design on a very tight deadline.
I’ve seen various issues with font auto-activation not working.
I’ve encountered a modern G5 machine that failed to boot while its fan when into overdrive like a jet engine.
I’ve heard the IT guy recommend that the Macs be re-booted to fix odd and random issues.
I still fail to see how it is a “superior” platform. In the end I get the same work done.
I doubt anyone in the company I am working for knows that I had never touched a Mac in the last decade, or that 99.99% of my design and production skills come from a PC environment.
I’ve actually been very pleased with all the great comments here.
However, I think the more important discussion here needs to be “what to watch out for in a mixed platform environment.” We are all in a mixed platform environment in one way or another (often without knowing it… for example, I typically have no idea whether an output provider is Mac or PC).
Any other concerns people think I’m missing?
In that case, it’s fonts for me. I am not about to buy all new OpenType fonts, yet when I refuse to give my fonts away to a client who now wants their files, I get zero support. I tell them not only is it illegal, they won’t even work on your PCs. So, aside from fonts, I routinely hand my files over with little issues.
Just a little introduction before I start getting people angry:
I am using all three systems (WinXP, PowerbookG4 and Ubuntu) and my main PC is named Ikea for a reason (built by myself to render 3D, built into my desk, as I wanted it to be hidden).
Using the best tool for the job! And unfortunatly when it comes down to manipulating large images the memory management on OSX beats WinXP hands down. Sure not everybody works on _huge_ files, but if you do, you definitly want to stick to using a mac pro (with enough memory).
Another reason is that, although most people dismiss this: PC’s are noisy… and you will only discover this if you switch all pc’s off and then imagine the same room with the same amount of background noise whilst using macs.
Although I’m currently using CS3 on a PC I’d love to use it on a mac just to be able to use exposé and spotlight (I’m a very messy file saver: they’re all over the place). Bridge saved me many times.
Also, when admins complain about having trouble administrating macs… well in my book that means they’re not even familiar with unix systems, and my knee-jerk reaction is to ask who hired them in the first place.
Back on topic: it’s a draw. Once you account for price, quality, smart admins, client/printer compatibility, noise production, fonts, etc etc…
But when it comes to back-ups, remote control, administration tools, user happyness… well I’d go OSX any time.
@Klaus Norby: So, to sum up: Macs are for little ol? ladies who are afraid to get their hands dirty ? and PCs are for Real Men who aren?t afraid to open the hood.
I drive Volvo, so I’m accustomed to never open the hood! I just drive and don’t worry.
The same is true with my Mac.
“There are people who love Mac and others how never have worked on them …”
in the end, they’re both just tools. i don’t consider either “better” than the other, just different tools with different strengths.
i have to say, though, that most of the arguments about which is better start to get annoying as they get farther afield from reality. like this one from the article david linked to:
“In fact this report went on to state, ?In a fully accounted 36 month cost-of-ownership of a system purchase, a Macintosh user saves $2211 more than a Windows user.? This amounts to over $700 per year per computer!”
sorry, i’m not buying it. the average user isn’t spending $700/year to support their machine, let alone $700 more than someone else. i’ve read a number of these articles and they come across as full of fallacies to me.
if you’re happy with your OS, that’s great. but at least keep your arguments for/against somewhere in the vicinity of reality.
Wow David! Yes, you opened a can of worms, but isn’t it refreshing to see the variety of people and perspectives among ID users? We really do play well together!
Back to the issue at hand…the one thing that makes the most sense to me is the “two for one” capabilities of the Mac. I just wish that I had an Intel based Mac. ‘-)
“The new Air is a joke. Even my friends who are total Mac zealots think that while it looks great, Apple only made it to show that they can do it and isn?t considerate or real world needs.”
Well I’m sorry to say but they completely missed the whole point as to WHY Apple released the MacBook Air… much like when they released the first iMac and most cried over the “lack” of disk drive.
“The first thing most Mac users do when they get a new Mac? Get a nice two-button scroll mouse. And no, the Mighty Mouse just doesn?t cut it.”
Never heard of this! Been working with the Mighty Mouse ever since it came out and love it. So are the 30 plus graphic designer I work with. Been using a Mac everyday since 1994 and never needed a two button mouse!
Funny how I always get the “I can modify my machine” from PC user… me I’m more the happy with the performance, and features from my out of the box Mac!
“but three family members have had Ipods and not one has lasted more than a year without mechanical failure, so I am skeptical of Apple?s vaunted quality.”
Maybe they should be so hard with it and handled it with care a little more? Just kidding!
Been using my iPod mini daily for over 3 years now. It has no scratches and works great!
KIMP, I agree with you. I’ve been quite happy with my Mighty Mouse. See this post for more information on mice-and-macs. But, to clarify, a mighty mouse is a two button mouse. They just hid the second button.
I would also draw a significant distinction between ipod use and manufacture and Mac use and manufacture.
Jennie, I agree: these are great comments. I love hearing that some people really want to build computers from scratch, or open them and tweak them. My secret confession: I have always been a software guy (since 1975, I guess, when my stepfather brought home a heat-sensitive paper-feed terminal and a 300 baud modem…), and never got into hardware. I want to tweak out my software, but I want my hardware to just work. I can change RAM and even an occasional hard drive, but not without some adrenaline.
“But, to clarify, a mighty mouse is a two button mouse. They just hid the second button.”
Yeah your right but I’ve set mine as a one button mouse only!
I’m not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but having used the CS package on both platfoms for many years now. I have noticed a major difference that I think is vital to your choice…
I think it has to do with how the mac/PC’s handles the mouse movement. What I mean is that if you in illustrator or indesign draw a curve or a detailed little something, you will get a much smoother and accurate feeling with a mac. On a PC it feels like the resolution of the points the mouse moves along are furher away from each other so it kind of twitches or makes bigger steps. It feels tiring and leaves me with a tense shoulder.
In InDesign when you work with tabs in a textfield, you’ll also notice how much harder it is to move those little arrows accurately on a PC vs a mac.
This is just my experience, and my bottom line will be that PC’s are OK for more technical applications like 3D, web, economics and such.
Macs are the best choice when it comes to working with graphic design. There is no doubt about this!
One of the drawbacks of using a Mac is Acrobat 8 Professional. I know that this is an InDesign forum, but I’ve realized that Acrobat 8 Pro. doesn’t come equipped with LifeCycle in Mac. Acrobat 8 Pro. for PC does. Weird isn’t it?
I do both web and print design on PC at work and use Mac at home. My PC at work has 2GB of RAM and 1GB on my IMac. The PC really struggles and groans at work but no such issues at home (despite the PC having the higher spec).
One thing I’ve been told is that Adobe and Apple worked together to optimise the two software systems so that you get the best integration and speed relative to PC. Having worked on both, I’d have to agree that Mac is typically easier than using Creative Suite on PC. If I could switch my PC to a Mac at work, I would, no question about it.
I actually need to see both platforms for web design so having a PC is handy, but not to design on if given a choice.
I’ve been a PC’r since day one. The department I worked in split the “designers” from the business “designers” – the former got the Mac’s & we got the PC’s. Yes, there were issues in the beginning – but now – it’s so transparent that it really doesn’t matter.
When asked eons ago to write my opinion for Graphic Design magazine about the “PC/Mac” war – I wrote a simple article with the last line stating… “I just want Mac’s & PC’s to get along”… it still holds true & they do get along now.
Most of my clients are all PC based & I need to keep my platform as such. Simply – when people ask me how do I survive as a designer using a Mac – I just tell them…. fine, how about you?
I know some people in IT have one program that they can’t live without on Windows, some programmers need Visual Studio for example… but even they can just put Windows on bootcamp on Mac now for that one program, so even the nerdiest of IT guys can get Macs now. Which is certainly different in IT to hear that more of them own Macs.
With Mac, I like how I don’t feel tied down to Windows, I can use Windows or Mac. Just a liberating feeling. I can use Windows at work, then switch over to MacOS for play when I get home.
The only reason I kinda wish I owned a PC is to do my own hardware upgrades.
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