Columns or Frames

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    • #74217

      I’ve only been learning InDesign CS6 for a week and am working hard on it.

      It helps that I know Photoshop and Premiere pretty well.

      But very much the newbie.

      I am writing a cookbook with the emphasis on tips and tricks for novices.

      The book will be 8.5 x 8.5 and I would like to use the same layout as in this image which is the same size.

      https://misconceptions.us/indesign/text-and-image.jpg

      I don’t know if it’s been achieved with columns or frames or both.

      Any ideas would be much appreciated.

      In the meantime I will be studying character and paragraph formatting.

      Michael

    • #74218
      David Blatner
      Keymaster

      It’s a great question. You could do this with a single text frame, but only with a lot of work. I would likely do this with five text frames: heading, title, ingredients, recipe, and footer. I would probably put empty frames on a master page (well, the footer and page number would not be empty) and then fill them in on the document pages.

      If you’re just starting, you might consider watching my InDesign Essential Training course at lynda.com. If you don’t have a subscription, you can get a free trial here: https://www.lynda.com/trial/indesignsecrets

    • #74219
      David Blatner
      Keymaster

      BTW, it’s funny you would bring this up, because we’re currently editing the May issue of InDesign Magazine now, and it’s all about food and there are a couple articles about cookbooks. :-)

    • #74220

      Thanks for the tip and the mention of the InDesign Training course.

      Five text frames sounds easier than a mixture of columns and frames.

      There is so much great stuff at Lynda and the monthly price is so good that I think I’ll subscribe.

      Easier than looking all over the Internet trying to find an excerpt from one of their courses.

      Right now I am selecting open fonts because I will be using fractions. Minion Pro and one other for headings and recipe text, and I will check out a second compatible pro one later today.

      https://bonfx.com/19-top-fonts-in-19-top-combinations/ has some really great font info – for me anyway.

      And I am learning about character and paragraph styles.

      So once I get a page format for the recipes like the one that I linked to, the only thing that will change in them will be the recipes themselves.

      The book is not a regular cookbook per say and will be entitled something similar to, Tips, Tips & Substitutes, Plus 25 Easy But Tasty Recipes That Really Work – or something like that.

      It’s for novice cooks with the emphasis on the tips and tricks, with recipes that they can make that use them.

      There will be chapter headings for chicken, beef and pork etc. and each will refer to a chapter on tips and another one to a chapter on substitutes.

      All the recipes are presently in plain .txt format and have already been proofread once and are now being proofread by a second person.

      I have proofread for a couple of authors but it’s hard for some reason to proofread what you wrote yourself.

      I bought a quality camera last week and a macro lens will be arriving on Tuesday.

      I will then cook every recipe (again) and photograph it and two other people will cook them too and give me feedback.

      I want the recipes to be as foolproof as possible because it’s so sad to follow a recipe precisely and then it doesn’t work out well.

      The recipes will all have pounds and metric and the ingredients will be in order of importance.

      The portion sizes and timings will be very accurate which are two things which are often way off in a great many online recipes.

      I have close to a 1000 followers on FB and many already want to buy the book because I post recipes and images.

    • #74225

      Since you are new to ID, I’d do it with three text frames (four if you count the running feet/folios—but those are on the master page regardless).

      One for the headnote AND the recipe title. That would be linked to the ingredients column and yield line, and that linked to the recipe directions (or vice versa—whichever is easier for you).

      For the headnote at the top of the page, I would have a left indent for the alignment.

      And of course, a separate paragraph style for the first ingredient so it started a new column, and the same with the first recipe direction.

      I’d keep the headnote and title together as I think it’s important to keep that space consistent, which it would not be if the boxes were separate and you had to adjust manually. It would be one less frame you have to adjust by hand for the spacing, which will have to be done for the ingredients and directions columns.

      ***
      Personally, I would do it with two frames. One full-size frame that would contain the headnote, the recipe title, and the recipe directions. Left indents for the headnote and the recipe directions. The second frame for the ingredients and yield line.

      For the ingredients I would have a separate frame with a different layer to have it on top. The main frame would be linked to the ingredients frame. I’d do the second layer so it would be easier to link and to touch.

      That way, all your spacing will be consistent via space above and below; and the only frame you would have to adjust manually to align would be the ingredients list to align with the recipe directions. I’d definitely have a separate style for the first ingredient to start the new column.

      NOTE: The running feet/folios would be on the master page anyway, so I did not count them. And I’m assuming you would use variables for running feet.

      Just out of curiosity—why are you going to do the ingredients in the order of importance? I’m just curious because I’ve worked on hundreds of cookbooks, and all of them are listed in the order in which they are used. I hope you don’t take offfense at the question. I am just curious as I don’t recall ever doing one where they were listed in importance.

      • #74231

        Three things.

        You have so much experience with cook books.

        1) What do you think of Myriad Pro for paragraph headings and Minion Pro for the recipe text.

        I’m not crazy about Myriad but do want to use an opentype for the recipes because of the fractions.

        2) Please PM me with an approximate price for laying out an 8.5 cookbook.

        Cover, 20-25 recipes with photos on facing pages. Plus an index and additional pages for a preface + tips and substitutes.

        3) What do you think about printing in China?

        thanks,

        Michael

        P.S. I am several months away from this because of recooking and then photographing the meals.

        P.P.S. Please give me a link or two to work that you have done.

      • #74372

        Michael

        Sorry for not seeing your post earlier.

        I don’t have any links to work I have done. I work for a typesetting company, and not a freelancer. Minion Pro should have the open-type fractions you need, so I don’t think you’d need Myriad. If not, Adobe Gramond as them all.

        So far as printing, I don’t know anything about that stuff. The folks in the front office deal with that. All I do is page the books (and design some things and fix designer’s files).

        Dwayne

    • #74229

      Thanks so much for all the advice on how to set up the page.

      I will need to study for another week or two or three to be able to do it, but now I have a game plan.

      —-

      I have zero problem with your question.

      Most on-line recipes are terrible :-(

      So many have cut and pasted mistakes and they make it appear that if you don’t have all the ingredients then you can’t do the recipe, which is nonsense.

      I just grabbed this from the Internet

      Ingredients

      2 tablespoons canola oil
      1 onion, chopped
      2 cloves garlic, minced
      1 1/2 tablespoons chili powder
      1/2 teaspoon cumin
      1 teaspoon paprika
      1 pound extra-lean ground beef
      1 cup low-sodium, nonfat beef broth
      1 28-oz. can chopped tomatoes with juices
      2 15-oz. cans red kidney beans, rinsed and drained
      Salt and pepper

      —–

      Not sure why not using “of” is almost ubiquitous.

      ——

      Does it matter if you don’t have Canola?

      No, but it’s at the top and there are lots of oils that a person could use.

      Does it matter if you have chili powder?

      No because there are lots of substitutes.

      Does it matter if you have the beef?

      Yes, so why isn’t it at the top?

      Why beef broth? I use vegetable stock cubes which can be used with beef, chicken or fish.

      Do you need the tomatoes and beans?

      Of course, so they should be at the top because you can’t make the meal without them.

      —-

      Why are grams not included? Most of the world uses them.

      100s of recipes say, “4 tbsp of oil” which is meaningless. “Add enough oil to lightly cover the bottom of the pan”, makes far more sense.

      Why “Preheat the oven”, and not, “Heat the oven”?

      My list could go on and on.

      I’m Anglo/American, have lived (not visited) in seven countries and have been in Portugal for 18 months.

      Perhaps surprisingly, there are very few spices here so I have learned how to put together ones that I can’t get.

      An easy homemade chili powder recipe.

      Total Time: 5 minutes

      Ingredients

      2 tsp garlic powder
      1 tsp paprika
      2 tsp ground cumin
      1 tsp cayenne pepper
      1 tsp oregano

      Mix them altogether and you’re done!

      So many people crack eggs on the edge of a bowl or cup and end up with shell in the egg. Crack them on a flat surface.

      Enough about recipes perhaps, but I hope that you now see what I want to do with the book.

      When I was about 18 years old I intended to become a top saucier but life took me in a totally different direction.

      I fell into the film business and was very good at my job.

      In spite of being very good at it, I never really had a passion for it.

      Now I’m retired I’m doing something very close to what I originally intended to do.

      Michael

      P.S. The book is not about making money or gaining fame, but is to help novices cook easy tasty meals that come out right if the follow the instructions.

    • #74232

      Makes sense to me! Looking forward to seeing your cookbook.

    • #74365

      Would use two text frames. I assume the space between the I to paragraph, th headline, and the following text is meant to be consistent, page to page. One text frame is the ly way to do this witht a lot of fiddling, moving frames up and down on every age when the lengths of those frames are not always the same.

      Introduction would have a margin on the right side, or perhaps is would be relative to th spine. Same with the txt below, although that spacing could be achieved with a text wrap on the sidebar text frame.

      Anything that makes it easier to maintain consistent spacing and formatting is your friend.

    • #74369

      Sorry, you said two text frames and then “one is the only way to go”.

      What am I not understanding?

      All the pages are consistent except when a new chapter is started.

      https://justpaste.it/kbah

      Thanks for posting,

      Michael

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