Why sRGB and Unsynchronized Color Settings Can Be a Good Thing
Anyone who knows me or the books I’ve co-authored, such as Real World Photoshop CS2 or Real World InDesign CS2, knows that I’ve been a pretty staunch opponent to using sRGB in the Color Settings dialog box for any of the Creative Suite applications. I’ve also advocated making sure that you use the same setup in the Color Settings dialog boxes of all the Suite applications (so they’d be Synchronized). But that changed recently during a discussion with Real World Color Management co-author Chris Murphy.
As Chris pointed out, synchronizing the Suite applications just isn’t that important. Sure, we get to see a little “synchronized” icon (in CS2) that makes us feel good, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get accurate color when you want it.
My new advice is to set up Photoshop and Illustrator to the General Prepress settings. This sets the RGB working space to Adobe RGB and the CMYK working space to either SWOP or Euroscale Fogra (depending on where you are). It also turns on all the profile mismatch and missing profile checkboxes. I like this because:
- I want the default RGB working space to be Adobe RGB unless I specifically choose otherwise. sRGB is too narrow/constrained a working space for images that will end up in print, and it’s even too annoying for images that may be repurposed for the Web. (For Web images, I like editing in Adobe RGB and then converting to sRGB just before using Save for Web.) Note, however, that there’s no benefit in converting sRGB files to AdobeRGB upon opening them unless you’re going to actually edit the images in such a way that the colors may take advantage of AdobeRGB’s larger color space. That is, once an image is in sRGB the damage has been done. As my co-author Bruce Fraser is fond of saying, “You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube.”
- I want the default CMYK to be SWOP or Euroscale, even though I’m probably going to use something else on an individual image-by-image basis. However, if you work in a predictable environment (such as a magazine that always prints on a particular printing press), you may want to get a custom CMYK profile for that press condition and use that as your default instead of SWOP. That will be a big step in taking you from middle-of-the-road color to really great color.
- Most of the time I want to be alerted to profile problems when I’m in those programs. (Actually, I spend very little time in Illustrator and virtually everything I create there is CMYK that I don’t want color managed, so I would be sorely tempted to simply turn off the Policy checkboxes in that program.)
However, in InDesign, I’m starting to use the General Purpose preset (instead of General Prepress). This turns off all those policy checkboxes, and — here’s where it gets wacky — specifies sRGB as the default RGB working space. Here’s why it makes sense:
- Granted, I don’t like the sRGB space, but if InDesign’s default working space is sRGB, then InDesign only assigns the sRGB space to colors in two instances:
- If you specify a color in InDesign as an RGB color. That’s pretty rare, as most colors should be specced as either CMYK or a Pantone spot color. In fact, the only time you’d likely specify a color as RGB is if you’re designing for the Web, but in that case, you probably want your RGB color to be based on sRGB anyway. So it’s all good.
- If you import an RGB image into InDesign that has no embedded profile. If the image has no profile, it probably means that you never opened and saved it from Photoshop, which means you probably got the image right off a Web site or directly from some digital camera that doesn’t embed profiles. In both these cases, sRGB is a safe bet for a color space. As Chris notes, “there are no untagged Adobe RGB images floating around in the world. There is a lot of untagged sRGB however.” So it’s all good.
- I very rarely need to see the profile mismatch and missing profile dialog boxes when opening InDesign documents. True, I wouldn’t know if someone sends me an InDesign document with different settings than mine, but I can always use Edit > Convert to Profile to see those settings and use Edit > Assign Profile to assign mine instead if I want to. (Remember that Convert to Profile actually changes color numbers, so a 100% cyan might get some magenta and yellow added in your Swatches palette if you convert to a different CMYK space. Assign Profile leaves all color numbers alone and simply changes their “meaning.”)
Using sRGB for InDesign’s default RGB working space just makes sense. Take a risk, and get unsynchronized!
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David,
This sounds like a good topic for a debate at the Seattle InDesign Conference because it runs totally counter to Adobe’s recommendations. Since you’ll have access to some of the Adobe engineers in Seattle, this would be a good forum to talk about it!
This could be an endless discussion but I would say that I don’t agree. My Eizo covers Adobe RGB, why should I stop using its ability to cover more printable CMYK colors than if I used sRGB ? And think about pro scannerists who like to work with high end monitor like Eizo and Barco and create new colors using Lab values because this is how they “think” the color. By just letting sRGB pass through the video device (monitor) they will not see some of the colors they just created.
Your goal is to print to CMYK ? Use a large RGB color space like Adobe RGB or ECI-RGB and a good monitor.
Steve, I look forward to the debate! My argument is that Adobe’s method makes sense for a beginner, but not necessarily for someone who thinks it through.
Branislav, I respect your opinions, but I think you have missed the point: Using sRGB for the default working color space in InDesign does not limit the colors you can use/see. If you have images from Photoshop that are tagged with AdobeRGB, they will still be in that space. The only time the default RGB space is used is when you specify colors in InDesign using RGB (do you do that?) or when you import an untagged RGB image. When do you import untagged RGB images? I bet that 99% of the untagged RGB images you use are in sRGB.
I do suggest using Adobe RGB in Photoshop, especially when you are editing images. And then, when you save from Photoshop, the Adobe RGB space will be embedded in the image. InDesign sees that and uses that, even if ID is set to sRGB.
I buy the RGB stuff, except I recomend users to use the ECI rgb as it has the correct DTP environment whitepoint (5000K), tiny detail but can be mission critical when evaluating the lighter shades? but most important is that the rgb image is tagged (especially important when using relative colour rendering, after adajusting for out-of-gamaut colours).
Sorry to be a difficult, but why aren’t people moving to ISO. Marketing and packaging is international, some campaigns involve printed matter printed in several different contenents, and expecting the same results.
The big probelm is ofcourse that often a campaign will be produced on/in a wide variety of media. And a CMYK (eg 50 20 5 0) will not be the same colour in a newspaper as on a laser printer. Pantone colours can use LAB values, so for corporate colours I hope design firms will learn to give LAB labels rather than Pantone, RGB or CMYK.
Lukas, I assume you mean you recommend that users choose ECI rgb in Photoshop, not InDesign. As I mentioned in the post, unless you’re making RGB swatches in InDesign (I wouldn’t), you should just use sRGB for InDesign. But sure, another rgb standard would be fine in Photoshop, too.
I think people (at least people in the USA) aren’t moving to the ISO standard for the same reason that so few of us use the metric system and so many of us eat the same type of candy that we did as children: Nobody wants to change until there is a really compelling reason to.
You are absolutely correct that speccing CMYK (or even RGB) colors without specifying a particular device or profile is completely meaningless. Providing LAB values makes much more sense when you’re not sure what printing device you’ll be using. Rumor has it that IKEA now specs all InDesign color swatches as Lab now for this very reason: They have to print their catalogs all over the world, but they want to make sure the colors are consistent.
I heard that China is a large printproduction for the USA. Also many companies are worldwide, and it would be wise for them to think of global standards when they invest millions on branding. If you have global visions (for yourself or your clients), think globally.
Oh, thanks! I’m not sure what kind they are, I never actually spoke to their owner.These guys were living off of the park across from my apartment at Price & Ray, on this really long, skinny pasture behind some houses. It was just the three of them, so they didn’t smell too bad except when the farmer flooded the fields. Here’s an overhead view of the pasture:
Is there an update of what has hapened in this area the past two years? In other forums te RGB CMYK discussion is still very muchdebated. This article was so much ahead of it’s time? but I am thinking that it needs to be promoted once again.
By the way the ECI RGB is also known as ISO 22028, and for untagged RGB sRGB i think is the ony reasonable assumption (all other RGB should be tagged).
Also wondering if that is what we are to assume that kuhler is? Tried to get response but Adobe seems very quiet about what RGB the Kuhler implies, wich is really silly, what is the danger in being precise?
for indesign documents that have an ECI RGB profile, does it mean we have to covert them as sRGB ?
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@nlx
I do not think it is necessary to convert images from Adobe RGB or ECI RGB, it is not necessary to have one RGB space, only to agree what RGB space is untagged, in wich case sRGB is the assumption.
If I recieve an image in sRGB and need to enhance it I would normally (in Photoshop) convert it to ECI RGB before making adjustments, and would keep an eye out for out of gamut colours.
Hello all, sorry to resurrect an old topic but we are having this very debate in our art-working studio.
We reproduce on digital and inkjet (mostly museum prints/limited editions) and work as Adobe RBG 1998 as our ‘default’ profile on imagery as this is the profile our press expects.
I haven’t been trained in colour theory so please forgive me if this is an elementary question, but if source file is Adobe RGB 98, and conversion policy is Adobe RGB 98, what effect does the indd colour space (ie SRGB) have on the output PDF?
Thanks
Nick
@Nick: It depends on what you’re sending them. Are you sending them a PDF? If you choose the PDF/X3 or PDF/X4 preset (in which RGB is acceptable) then colors should not change and the proper RGB profiles should be included, attached to the images.
Hi there,
I photograph for a large corporate client (retail), who sends my files to different printers, from newspapers to banners, magnetized prints and web. In the past, I’ve always processed my images in AdobeRGB (occasionally I would print some jobs on my Epson 3800) and sent them a copy in sRGB. Now they are under new direction and they are asking me to send them all files with NO embedded profile. They say they have a new vendor for printing (banners) and that’s what they want. I’m nervous thinking that my images will end up printed with terrible quality. Is my worry justified?
Why would somebody want an unprofiled (untagged?) file. Why does that option even exists?
@Antonia: Your worry is justified. This person does not know what they are talking about, or if they do, they have a workflow which is deeply messed up. If you’re sending RGB images to them, they simply cannot get the color right if there is no embedded profile. And why would they care? An rgb profile adds virtually no file size. I would push them very heavily on this and only comply as a last resort.
Hi David, I hope you are still checking this thread! 8 Years old and counting, impressive.
I have a question for you if you don’t mind.
I have started working at a college and have been handed responsibility of the Corporate Guidelines. The colour management/consistency is a MESS to say the least.
Now I have come from working in a studio at a Litho printers, and working with huge clients and strict corporate guidelines. So I understand the importance of colour consistency, and I am familiar with following strict colour breakdowns, working in Pantone, CMYK and occasionally RGB. However these guidelines will have always been supplied to me and therefore I have never had to correct colour breakdowns before.
My question is, where do you start!? I have the Pantone references to the colours (2738C & 3135C) and these have been used for both uncoated and coated stock – there is a huge difference in the reproduction of colour on the uncoated stock so my first task is going to be to chose a different uncoated PMS value to match the 2738C. I’m waiting on some new swatch books as the ones I have been handed are pretty old, but from what I have here 072U seems closer to 2738C than 2738U does…
Next task is the CMYK values, I am going to get the printers that I use regularly to give me a hand with this. I am aware that there is going to be slight changes depending on the press used but as long as we are close to the Pantone then I am happy with that (currently it is way out).
So finally I have the task of assigning some RGB values to our Corporate colours (along with Hex) so ensure that whenever our communication is created for online/screen the colours are consistent with our printed communication. What advice would you give to get this right as the current RGB values assigned to the colours are those recommended in the Pantone Bridge book, and on my 27” Imac (Late 2012) they really don’t seem consistent with the printed colours.
Apologies to rabble on but I have read through your thread and you certainly seem to know what you are talking about. Hope you can point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
Sam.
Sam, speccing RGB colors for corporate branding is always difficult because you cannot control how people are viewing the images — different devices will display the same RGB values differently (just as different televisions show color in the same images differently when placed next to each other at the store).
As for speccing pantone colors, I think all you can do is use Pantone’s recommendations — but as you note, they will look very different in different printing conditions.
My hometown is Cedar Rapids, IA, but I now call Racine, MN home. Rolling farm country and lots of small towns to visit with Rochester a bigger city close by.