InDesignSecrets Podcast 194

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(22.1 MB, 40:51 minutes)

View the transcript of this podcast.

  • PEPCON 2013 recap! We share some of our favorite moments
  • InDesign CC is coming June 17! What’s it all about? What are the new features?
  • Adobe moves all-in to the Creative Cloud: The good, the bad, the undecided; we duke it out!
  • Obscure InDesign Feature of the Week: Autotag

14 Comments on “InDesignSecrets Podcast 194

  1. Didn’t your parents ever tell you not to play with autotag?

    Yes! So glad to see that you covered autotag in a podcast. I first encountered that feature over three years ago, when I was up late one night trying to find obscure features to suggest for the InDesign Secrets podcast! Be careful when playing with autotag, as it may cause your paste functionality to break if you don’t how to use it (a lesson I learned the hard way). Here is my 3+ year old blog article on Autotag:

    When InDesign Paste No Longer Works

  2. Enjoyed your discussion about Adobe’s move to CC and agree 100% with Marie on this. I liked the car leasing analogy; there may be a lot of great benefits to going CC but not having the choice really bugs me. Maybe a CS7 version down the line, as Marie suggested, might be a good compromise. Every two or three years Adobe could take whatever the latest version of the software is and package it for sale. Can’t see how that would be a problem for them, unless what critics are saying is true and Adobe wants the drip drip drip of cash coming in each month.
    And David, sorry but you sounded like an Adobe evangelist today -“subscribing to the koolaid” (great line Marie)

  3. RE: David buying the CC Kool-Aid…

    The perpetual license allows us to sip the Kool-Aid whenever we are thirsty and believe that a particular upgrade has features relevant to us. We know exactly what a glass costs. The subscription license makes us pay for Kool-Aid to be poured down our throats, regardless of innovation (or lack thereof). We are not given any guarantee about how much we’ll have to pay in the future to continue choking on a steady stream of software or features we may never need.

    And yes, Adobe has stated that they want to “take advantage of the situation”. Check out the material that they prepared for the investors. It is a very different message than what is presented to Adobe customers.

  4. The best analogy I could think of for people wanting to use only a few apps is the way buying digital music works. Some bands only have a few great tracks so buyers have gotten used to not having to buy entire albums if the band is not capable of putting out a great album. Adobe is just like that. The number of really great Adobe apps you can count on one hand. The fact is CC could offer users a million apps but if only four or five or those apps are any good it wouldn’t translate into a better value. You can’t simply increase the number of apps to create a better value. All that matters is the number of hits you have. In Adobe’s case that number is very very small.

    As far as Adobe not being vocal about taking advantage of customers of course they are not going to say that in front of an outsider! They do, however, talk that way behind closed doors. I want to say there is at least one area I agree with David about. Listening to some people on these forums complaining about the fact that Adobe won’t let them upgrade after they have skipped four versions of ID is a bit redic. I can understand why Adobe is trying to get people on newer versions instead of staying with CS2. No matter what kind of work you do in layout you could have taken advantage of a lot of features released between CS2 and now. Unfortunately their decision to make users buy every version is a bit over kill.

  5. We have to keep in mind that many, many people are perfectly happy with the Adobe subscription model. They do have over 500K users who’ve “volunteered” for it over the past year, after all.

    Example. I just read this quote this morning. It was written by a freelance graphic designer friend. I copied her post from a local creative group’s mailing list in a thread about CC, because it seemed to sum up the advantages pretty neatly:

    “As to the CC subscription, I signed up last summer and it works well (no issues with software suddenly not working because it couldn’t phone home). It’s easier for me to pay a bit every month instead of having to make a big purchase all at once. And while I still haven’t found time to play with some of the other tools (like the Edge products and Muse) I like having ready access to them so I can when I want.”

    • Anne-Marie you have to keep in mind the 500k users that are (supposedly) happy with CC are currently paying $30 a month. What remains to be seen is how happy these people will be when their monthly subscription doubles. Yes the $30 is a sort of an ok deal since it is in line with what the pricing was for the 18 month CS product cycle ($30 X 18 months = $540, CS was $600 so CC is currently roughly the same price as CS.)

      I can think of at least two problems with having services like Edge and Muse being required products. One is that it just assumes that the Adobe solution to these products will be the most appropriate product for my needs and that has not always been the case. Many times I have had reasons for not using an Adobe product in the past since a competitor provided a better solution. CC takes away the option of looking for a competitor since I will be paying for the Adobe service so it would make financial sense to stick with the Adobe product whether it works well for me or not.

      The other problem with the current model is that it ignores the fact that companies will hire an entire team to do all that work that CC provides tools for. Tying all those programs into one computer doesn’t make a lot of sense since that work is spread over many computers in a team. I simply don’t know any creative types that are really good at graphic design AND video AND illustration AND music AND the technical coding side. Anne-Marie and David I challenge you to show me a creative person that really excels in ALL of these areas. Show me just one person who can do all of those things with complete proficiency. This person that Adobe is catering to does not exist.

  6. I have been a CC subscriber since August 2012 and am absolutely delighted with the package. Not only can I choose from a variety of 17 apps, but there are Edge Tools & Services; other services including DPS, Business Catalyst, Story, Behance and ProSite, together with the opportunity of creating up to 5 websites using Muse. Also, there are constant updates!!
    My subscription is for an individual package and I have the software on two machines. So, the comment about tying everything into one machine, doesn’t apply!

    It sounds as though a lot of people are making judgements without actually investigating the offers available, I suggest they take a look before making hard and fast decisions, because I think they may be pleasantly surprised.

    • Anita you are being very deceptive. Adobe makes it very clear that running CC on two machines is only for one user. In fact if two people try to access that same CC subscription at the same time they won’t be able to do it. The goal should be for a team of people to use the products at the same time. CC doesn’t allow you to achieve this goal. The CC subscription is only for one user.

      The problem with having access to 17 apps is that you don’t have the skill necessary to take on all those disciplines. I am not saying so much that don’t understand how to use 17 apps, you might, but I know that you are not competent in all those areas. I have worked around a lot of very talented creative folks but they are always skilled in just a couple of areas and very mediocre in other areas. Providing an enormous tool set does nothing to change this fact.

  7. @Anita, thank you for the comment! @Kip, Anita didn’t post anything deceptive. She said it can be installed on up to two computers, which is true. You clarified the point, which was great, but please, tone it down.

    If you’ve already posted your feelings about Adobe’s subscription model to David’s post about it here please refrain from restating it all here. Anyone who’s not seen that post or voluminous and lively discussion in the comments, you should check it out! ;-D

    • @Ray: You bring up an excellent point. Plug-in developers are currently scrambling to get everything ready for CC. Every plug-in will need to be upgraded — old plug-ins will certainly not work with CC. (Though some scripts may work.)

      One of the main challenges for plug-in developers moving forward is how to deal with InDesign being changed slowly, incrementally, rather than just once every 12 or 18 months. It would not surprise me if some developers decide to go for the same kind of subscription model.

      • When will developer determine need to update–when they test and find out it don’t work?

  8. I’m just catching up on all these podcast episodes, having only recently discovered this INCREDIBLE podcast. What makes this issue so divisive is the validity of the arguments on both sides.
    One hand: People that make money using the Adobe products only have to mark up a month’s worth of work by $40 to cover the cost of the subscription. No brainer.
    Other hand: People that do not make money using Adobe products really get the short end of the subscription stick—right in the eye.

    The CC for Teams, however, has very little in its favor. I am part of a very small agency and we pay for three CC Team seats. The CC cloud storage may be touted as one of the CC Team perks, and I’d agree IF it enabled clients to login and view/comment on work without having to have their own subscription. But, the CC menu item “Files” for accessing our cloud-stored files says “coming soon…” so, we can’t even take advantage of the supposed $20 value-add for being a Team subscriber.

    Terry White’s debunking is what turned me around, and David’s hypothetical role-reversal, proposing that if it had been subscription for years and then Adobe announced they were moving to perpetual license, probably accurately portrays the public’s penchant for resistance to change (self included).

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