Podcast 048 Transcript

To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast Podcast 048 page.


David Blatner: Welcome to InDesignSecrets Episode 48. I’m David Blatner; I’m here along with my co-host Anne-Marie Concepcion.

Anne-Marie Concepcion: Hi David! Hi everybody.

David: Hello, hello. For those of you new to the podcast InDesignSecrets and our companion blog at www.InDesignSecrets.com is the independent resource for all things InDesign, that’s Adobe InDesign. We’ve got all kinds of news today.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. The first big news is that Adobe started shipping the Creative Suite 3 packages for Design and Web yesterday.

David: Have you actually talked to anyone who’s received one of these boxes? I don’t think they actually have a box, do you think?

Anne-Marie: Well I went to the website and you can order the box. I don’t think anybody’s received the box but I know some people who’ve downloaded it. It’s like a 3.4 gigabyte download for the Creative Suite Premium package.

David: Oh yeah. Just a little 3.4 Gigabyte download. OK. Easy.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. You start it before you go to bed and in the morning it will have downloaded half of Acrobat –

[David and Anne-Marie laughing]

Anne-Marie: But they’re currently being sold and you can buy them on Amazon and CDW and all that kind of stuff. The Production Suite isn’t out yet but that’s just AV stuff.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: When we do a podcast we don’t care about the AV stuff.

David: There are some very cool things in that AV package. I want to get my hands on the Soundbooth thing, that’s going to be cool.

Anne-Marie: Mm-hmm.

David: It is exciting but I personally refuse to get excited about it until I actually have my box. I want a box.

Anne-Marie: OK.

David: I’m box oriented I guess.

Anne-Marie: That’s true. And speaking of the box, one of the coolest things that comes free in the box is a DVD of video tutorials for all the programs in the Creative Suite.

David: If you want to learn them.

Anne-Marie: Yeah.

David: Which probably we all do.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. I don’t think they’re a full set of “here’s how you learn it from A through Z” but there are video tutorials aimed at new users and ones aimed at expert users who want to learn about the new features. I know this for sure…

David: How do you know this?

Anne-Marie: … because I did a number of them for InDesign CS3 – as did you.

David: Yes you did. Yes I did. We both did.

Anne-Marie: Here’s the spectrum: I did one on using the new table styles and cell styles feature and then I did another one on how to make a selection.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: How about that?

David: That’s a wide spectrum.

Anne-Marie: Here’s how you select a frame.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: Even that one has some new features. If you double click and image with the selection tool it immediately switches to the direct selection tool.

David: I love that.

Anne-Marie: If you double click it again with the direct selection tool it toggles back to the selection tool – very useful.

David: Yep. Also for groups – if you double click on a group you go to your direct select tool so you can actually select an item within the group. I like that about CS3 very much.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: Yeah, same thing. I did a bunch of videos on some of the long document features and a number of other topics. That actually comes in the box, which is cool. It also shows up on the web. You can actually watch these videos on the website now even before you have your box. Steve Werner pointed that out in a post at www.InDesignSecrets.com. If you go there look for Steve’s post about finding the video training tutorials on the web. Follow that link and that will take you right there. It’s very cool; they have a nice interface for that.

Anne-Marie: One of the coolest ways to get to these videos is with Bridge CS3. Have you seen that? If you go to Bridge Center it’s completely redesigned, it looks gorgeous, and across the top is a scrolling list of online video training for all these different products from the DVD. So you could scroll through and hover over a screen shot of one and a little tool tip appears explaining what’s in this video, what level it’s aimed at. Click it and it brings you right to the Adobe page and starts playing the video.

David: It’s very sweet. They did a nice job with that. I mean they are really trying to get the training out, the highest quality training out to users, so that people can get up to speed as quickly as possible. I am very please with that. And we had a good time doing those too. We did those for lynda.com. Lynda.com is the company that actually produced them and I think they did a very nice job doing all the production on this. So thank you lynda.com and thank you all those editors at lynda.com, who took our raw materials and turned them into something looking very pretty.

Anne-Marie: Yeah they did an incredible job.

David: Yeah that was really good. So also we should also mention some other news. The vector conference and the pixel conference are around the corner, a couple weeks away in Chicago. If you’re anywhere in the Midwest definitely come by check out those two conferences back to back. If you want to learn about Photoshop, Illustrator or Flash. That’s going to be great fun. Deke McClelland will be there.

Anne-Marie: Come to Chicago. Chicago is beautiful in May.

David: Oh it’s going to be great. I’m going to be pleased. Ben Wilmore will be talking about Photoshop stuff. Colin Smith is going to be doing some… I think it’s going to be great so definitely check that out. Also you’ve probably heard me go on and on about the InDesign Conference in June. That’s going to be great. That’s already starting to fill up with attendees so definitely make you reservations for the InDesign Conference at idconference.com. And check that out, that’s going to be mucho fun.

Anne-Marie: Is that going to be about InDesign?

David: About InDesign… Yeah, InDesign. That’s what it is.

Anne-Marie: Any seminars on InDesign at that?

David: There are going to be a couple. Yep it’s going to be good. We are also going to be talking about InDesign there.

Anne-Marie: OK.

David: Both InDesign, CS2, and CS3, of course. We will be doing lots of CS3 stuff at the conference, but it will also be covering a lot of CS2 things because, of course, people still need to get their work done with cs2. So the same thing here on our show. We’re going to be covering both CS2 and CS3 for the foreseeable future, because people need to know about both.

Anne-Marie: And speaking of that, let’s talk about what we are going to talk about on this show, other than the news.

David: OK what should we talk about?

Anne-Marie: OK, the first thing is we’re going to talk about trapping.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: Whenever I say the word “trapping” I imagine like, this zombie rising out of a grave. “Oooooh! Trapping! Do you remember when you have to worry about trapping?”

David: Oh god I keep trying to forget.

Anne-Marie: How to do it in InDesign, and should you do it in InDesign.

David: Yeah so we’ll talk about that. Good.

Anne-Marie: Yes and then we always like to talk about a new CS3 feature and the one that we want to talk about in this episode are the new text wrap features in CS3. A couple of them are surprising. Pretty neat. And our obscure Photoshop…


David: Obscure Photoshop?

Anne-Marie: I’m looking at the acronym “OF” and I said Photoshop. See how my brain works?


Anne-Marie: That’s Obscure Feature of the Week eek, eek, eek, eek. It is detach selection from master. And if you’ve seen that and like, “Uh, I have no idea what that is,” then you are going to find out in this podcast.

David: That’s right. Yes master, yes.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: all right trapping. Let’s talk about trapping a little bit. A lot of people still worry about trapping. It’s always funny to me how much trapping has gotten into our psyche, our creative professional psyche we must trap and we have to do the trapping ourselves. Especially people who have been doing this for ten, or fifteen, twenty years. People are thinking, “Well I still have to do all my trapping myself because no one is as good as me.” I keep running into these people and I just shake my head and think, “Oh, oh, I hope you work by the hour.”

Anne-Marie: You know at some point it might have been true that there were nobody better than them at trapping.

David: Absolutely. Absolutely. But this one of those things that it’s something you learn. It’s like in psychology, as a child you learn these defense mechanisms that later no longer apply to your life, and you need to be able to strip them away. Well this is one of those things.

Anne-Marie: Yes that’s true.

David: You need to let go. Let go of your psychological need to do your trapping.

Anne-Marie: That’s very good. I’m one big defense mechanism. I’ve decided everything I do is motivated by defense mechanism.

David: That’s great. That’s great. You know, Ram Dass once had a wonderful comment about that. He said, “You know I used to think i was neurotic, but now I realize that all these neurosis, they’re just my style.” So I like that.

Anne-Marie: Oh, that Ram!

David: Good old Ram. So, trapping. Trapping is one of those things–for those of you who aren’t familiar with trapping, you should count yourselves lucky that you’re not, that you don’t know about trapping.

The basic idea of trapping is, when you have something on press–you’ve got a color job on press, and let’s say you’ve got magenta and cyan right next to each other. Right exactly next to each other. Well, if the press misregisters just a little bit, if the paper shifts a tiny bit, if anything happens to shift that, if it stretches a little bit, you’re going to get a little bit of a gap between those two colors. So trapping is a way to offset that a little bit, to cover the gap that might possibly occur.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: So that’s what trapping’s all about, and there’s lots of ways of handling trapping. The basic way is you draw a little colored line down the middle, and you overprint that on top of both colors so that if one sort of shifts off to the side, you won’t accidentally get any white space; you won’t see the white paper filtered through.

Anne-Marie: Yeah.

David: People typically do trapping–if you do it manually, again, from the old days, you do that with overprinting strokes. You apply a stroke to an object and then you set it to overprint. InDesign lets you overprint strokes in the Attributes palette, or in CS3 the Attributes panel. It has to be a panel if it’s CS3.

Anne-Marie: Yes!

David: So you can get that Attributes palette from the Window menu, and you can select the object that has a stroke and then choose “Overprint Stroke,” and so on.

Anne-Marie: But you don’t have to do that; it does it automatically.

David: But it can do it automatically. That’s where we’re going. Much better to do it automatically. Because InDesign’s trapping is, without a doubt, a better trapper than you are, personally. Maybe not you, Anne-Marie…

[Anne-Marie laughs]

But everyone else. Everyone else, InDesign will do a better job of trapping.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. And in fact, the automatic trapping is turned on by default for everything that you do in InDesign. You have to work to turn off trapping.

David: That’s right. If you print separations. It’ll only kick in when you’re printing separations, though. Normally you won’t.

Anne-Marie: Yes. Though it is turned on–right. It only kicks in if you go to the Print dialogue box in InDesign and choose “Separations” for the output. So if you’re exporting to PDF, that’s not an option. You always export composite PDFs, and you have to work extra-hard to print separations to PDF.

David: That’s right. Actually, I’ll put a post on InDesignSecrets.com talking about how you can get a composite CMYK PDF that has trapping built into it.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. That’s a very cool little tip.

David: Yeah. Anne-Marie wrote that up a couple years ago on Design Geek. I’ll put it as a post at InDesignSecrets that’ll walk you through how to do that, if you need a PDF that has trapping built into it. A lot of people don’t need that, but if you do, this’ll walk you through how to do that. But in general, if you’re printing separations out of InDesign, the trapping will be on.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. But otherwise, you don’t want trapping. When you export to PDF, no traps are there. Everything is kiss-fit in a composite PDF. And I would say the vast majority of the time, that is exactly how your print provider wants it, because they’re going to do their own trapping. They have their own high-end equipment that will do the trapping customized for their press.

David: Yes. And that is the way it should be done. You know, typically what they can do in their custom trapping solution–their custom trapping software–is going to be much better than what InDesign can do, and definitely better than what you can do manually. So let your printer do it, that’s the big rule here. Let your printer do it. If your printer goes, “Trapping? What’s a trapping?” maybe it’s time to find a different printer.

Anne-Marie: Right. Walk out of the Kinko’s and go down the street.


David: Right. Now, that said, I do want to point out that there are printers, and very intelligent printers, and printers who do very high-quality work, who do not trap. They don’t trap their jobs and they still get great work. The reason is because on a lot of very, very new presses, they just don’t get registration problems like they used to. They can really have just super-high quality and the colors just kiss-fit, and it just works with no trapping. It’s really awesome to see. So if they say, “Yes, we know all about trapping but we don’t use it,” don’t freak out. They may actually be OK.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: Push them a little bit and say, “How old is your press?” and “Do you really keep it in that good registration?” But you can find those printers who are doing high-quality work. And of course that’s definitely true on a lot of the digital presses these days.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. I think the overall thing is that when you are asking for quotes for a print job, you want to make sure that they’re including any extra costs for trapping. They used to do that a lot. I remember having to pay $50 a page if I wanted a printer to do the trapping.

David: Wow!

Anne-Marie: So that’s why I did it myself. But now it just comes with the program. It would be like charging somebody to hyphenate their text!

[David laughs]

You know, it’s just a little button I turn on over here, and it does a much better job than I could ever do.

David: Are you saying that I can charge people to hyphenate their text?

Anne-Marie: [laughs] Well, I guess the monks did it, way back when they were laying out illuminated manuscripts, or somebody at some point charged people to hyphenate, I would think.

David: [laughs] That’s true! Wow.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. So normally that is. But if you want to feel secure about it, just double-check with your print vendor that they are going to be taking care of the trapping. And if you have anything special in your design that you are worried about the trapping, the best thing is to show that to the printer. Make a quick little PDF, email it to them, to their prepress department. Say, “Any special issue I need to be worried here, with trapping? Do I need to do something funky in Illustrator to it?” Let them see it before you just give them the final job and say, “Hey, I want to see the proof tomorrow.”

David: Yep. Now, there are some other really obscure stuff about trapping, and maybe we’ll cover that in the next episode, the obscure feature stuff.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. I think one thing we forgot to mention, though, is that if people are curious about InDesign settings for trapping, how do you find that information? Because it’s kind of buried.

David: Yep, that’s true.

Anne-Marie: You’d think it would be under the Edit menu, but it’s not. It’s under the Window menu, because it’s a palette.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: If you go to Window, “Output,” you’ll see an option there under Flattener Preview and Separations Preview for “Trap Presets.” Open that up. You’ll see the Default setting and then there’s one other setting called “No Trap Preset.” You can double-click Default to see what all the different settings are. You can create new trap settings. You can apply trap settings to certain pages, with the Palette menu commands.

David: Yeah. There’s lots of little twisted stuff in there. The main thing that people would want to know in there is if you want to change your default trapping to something other than a quarter-point. Maybe if you’re working for a newspaper and you want a much larger trapping–for the newspaper industry, maybe two inches.

[Anne-Marie laughs]

Ten inches.

Anne-Marie: That’s right! And you’re doing your own trapping.

David: [laughs] Exactly. You can increase your default trap width here in the Default dialogue. You just double-click on “Default” and it opens the Default Trap Preset options, and you can change right there. That’s how you would change that. It is funny that they made it a palette. It’s like, that’s all we need is another palette in InDesign.

[Anne-Marie laughs]

Of course, Trap Presets! Sure, let’s make it a palette!

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: OK. Onward. Should we talk about the text wrap stuff?

Anne-Marie: Yeah. OK. So this is a CS3-specific topic, and this is on what are the new text wrap features in CS3? There are a number of new features, which is pretty cool. I think the first one and the main one is that you can now wrap around objects that are on a master page.

David: Yeah.

Anne-Marie: Which was so aggravating in earlier versions of InDesign.

David: Yeah. I couldn’t even believe that you couldn’t do text wrap on master page objects. Every time I encountered it, I just was shocked. But now they’ve finally fixed that in CS3. In fact, by default, when you put an object on a master page and you turn on Text Wrap, it will wrap on your document pages. So that’s an important thing to keep in mind.

And if you don’t want it to wrap on your document pages, you have to select it–go to your Text Wrap panel and tell it to specifically only apply to your master page. You have to turn that on, I believe, by default. So that’s a new one.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. So that’s good. And then for any object to which you apply a wrap, you have a bunch of new features under Wrap Options.

David: Yeah.

Anne-Marie: They apply to both the bounding box kind of wrap–that’s that second icon–and to the contour wrap, that third icon. The existing method is already supported, right? That’s when you have a small object inside a large text frame, and you turn on Wrap for that small object. It wraps on both sides, so that you’re reading the line and then you skip over the object and then you read the rest of the line, and then you go to the left side of the frame and you read, and you skip. But not many people like that.

David: No, it’s just horrible! That’s another one of those “Why would they do it that way?” kind of features. You almost never want text to go on both sides of an object.

Anne-Marie: No. So you can change that under the Wrap Options.

David: Hurray!

Anne-Marie: From both right and left sides you can say, “Just the right side; I only want the wrap to affect the right side of this item,” or “Just the left side,” or “The largest area,” which is how I think QuarkXPress works.

David: Yeah, that’s how QuarkXPress does it. The left or the right side, whichever is larger. I like that.

Anne-Marie: Whichever has more room for text.

David: Yeah. Very, very nice.

Anne-Marie: And they added the “Toward Spine” and “Away From Spine” features.

David: Yes, very sweet–especially if you have objects that are causing text wrap that might move from a left-hand page to a right-hand page. Perhaps the object is an anchored object. You want to be able to control which side the wrap is going to go on, so “Toward the Spine” or “Away From the Spine” is very nice. A very subtle but very cool feature they added in there. I like that.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. And they remembered also to add the “Make All Settings the Same” icon.

David: Yep.

Anne-Marie: You know those four little fields where you enter the wrap offset?

David: Right. Like if you want five millimeters on all four sides, you don’t have to do “five millimeters, tab, five millimeters, tab, five millimeters.”

Anne-Marie: Right.

David: You just do “five millimeters” and click that button, and it shows up on all four sides. So very nice. I like that.

And you pointed out one that’s kind of a subtle one. There’s no user interface for it. Before the show, when we were talking, Anne-Marie pointed out that one of the things they did was add… It makes much simpler text wraps. You know, if you have a complicated shape like a picture, and you want to edit the text wrap, if you use the Direct Selection tool to click on the picture, you can actually go in there and edit the text wrap. Well, in CS2 and earlier, that text wrap was really complicated. There was often far too many points on that. In CS3 they’ve simplified it. It’s not simple, but it’s there’s usually fewer points on there.

Anne-Marie: There are far fewer, right. I did some quick tests, and this usually only applies to when you choose “Alpha”–when you want to turn on “Wrap to Alpha” or “Detect Edges.”

David: “Detect Edges,” yeah.

Anne-Marie: Right. Not the ones with the clipping path that you actually create in Photoshop, if you are still doing that, because those obviously are already simple. But the ones that InDesign creates on its own are often a nightmare of 10,000 points. I just did a quick test of a couple objects like that. There’s probably about 10% of the number of points in CS3 than there were in CS2.

David: Which is great. Very nice.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. A lot easier to edit.

David: That’s one of those little features… Some of you are InDesign Magazine subscribers, and you saw that I wrote a big article in InDesign Magazine about the little features in InDesign CS3, and how they sometimes have a big, wonderful impact. That’s one of those little features that there’s no user interface for, but they just snuck it in there, and it makes our lives better. So that’s a good thing.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: Cool. So there’s lots of good stuff in CS3, and I’m very pleased about that, about the text wrap stuff; that was good. OK.

Anne-Marie: Let’s go on to our…

David and Anne-Marie: Obscure Feature of the Week! Eek, eek, eek, eek!

Anne-Marie: And that is “Detach Selection from Master.”

David: Yes, “Detach Selection.”

Anne-Marie: Oh master, please tell us what this is about.

David: [laughs] Well, it says “Master,” so you know it has something to do with a master page. Right?

Anne-Marie: Mm-hmm.

David: So what could this obscure feature be? Well, first let’s tell you where it is. If you have an object on a master page and you go to your document page, you can select that object, you know. You can select the object by Control-Shift-Clicking on it, or Command-Shift-Clicking on it, right? That will override that object.

Now, if you do that, and you look in the Pages palette menu–the little flyout menu–suddenly you’ll see a feature called “Detach Selection from Master.” So what’s the difference? The difference between overriding and detaching? When you simply Command-Shift-Click or Control-Shift-Click on an object, it overrides it. That is, it turns into an actual document page object that you can move; you could change its color or whatever.

Anne-Marie: Right.

David: But it’s still slightly attached to the master page. There’s still actually a link, behind the scenes. So for example, if you override, you do a Command-Shift-Click on an object, let’s say a blank frame, you override it and then you move it to a different place on your page. Well, if you go back to your master page and change the object’s color, it will also update on your document page. There’s still a link there, and the fill color is still linked, even though you’ve overridden it and moved it someplace else on your page.

Anne-Marie: Yeah, because what gets broken from its tie to its master page source is the attribute that you changed.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: So if you change the position, then moving the master page items to a different position is not going to change the position on the object you overrode.

David: Yeah. That’s right. Except it’s actually a little bit more complicated. The problem is that I never remember exactly what gets overridden and what doesn’t. So if you change the color of the background color or the fill color, then I think it also overrides the text that’s inside of it, or the pictures inside of it. There’s some stuff that’s not obvious that you’re overriding, when you make a change on your document page. I wish it were more obvious, but it’s not. It’s just kind of obscure. But…

Anne-Marie: Right. That’s true. But another thing, though, that it always remembers is that “I used to be a master page item.”

David: Yeah.

Anne-Marie: It always remembers that. Because you can twist and turn that overridden master page item so it looks nothing like what it used to be on the master page, and you can still select it and from the Pages palette flyout menu choose “Remove Selected Override.”

David: Yeah. And it’ll go back to its original state.

Anne-Marie: So it remembers what it’s supposed to look like.

David: Yeah. Which is great. I love that. Just a nice, easy way to get an object back to its original state.

Anne-Marie: And that, I think, is the key difference between Overriding and Detaching an Object from the Master.

David: Yeah. Because when you detach, it breaks all links. It completely forgets that it was ever a master page item. It becomes totally a document page object.

Anne-Marie: It’s like the “Men In Black” little machine that makes them forget their memory.

David: [laughs] Right.

Anne-Marie: You can select that, and “Remove Selected Overrides” will be grayed out in the Pages panel menu, because it has no idea that it ever was a master page item. Sometimes that’s useful.

David: It is! Absolutely. And that is the Obscure Feature of the Week, eek, eek. “Detach Selection from Master.”

Anne-Marie: And now you know.

David: Now you know. So now you know; so now you know!

Anne-Marie: That’s right. OK. That’s it for Episode 48. We’d love to hear your feedback. Post a comment in the show notes at the blog, at InDesignSecrets.com, or email us at info @ InDesignSecrets.com. And until we meet again, this is Anne-Marie and…

David: …David Blatner for InDesign Secrets.


To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast Podcast 048 page.


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