Podcast 139 Transcript
To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast 139 page.
David Blatner: Welcome to InDesign Secrets, Episode 139. I’m David Blatner. I’m here along with my cohost, Anne-Marie Conception.
Anne-Marie Conception: Welcome everybody. Our podcast and blog at indesignsecrets.com are the world’s number one resource for all things InDesign.
David: It’s true. And today, coming up on today’s show, today, today, very into today, cool tips involving object styles. We are going to talk about the Quizzler winners. We had a Quizzler last episode and in the newsletter. Going to answer that Quizzler. It’s going to be wonderful fun. And, we have a new item, the keyboard shortcut of the week.
Anne-Marie: I thought we were going to do the obscure keyboard shortcuts.
David: Well, this is not too obscure. This is sort of like medium obscure shortcut of the week. I don’t know, we’ll see. We’ll see if maybe it’s obscure enough that it’ll truly earn that title of obscure keyboard shortcut of the week, but we are going to do an obscure InDesign feature of the week. And that is going to be spacing options, so that’ll be good. Anne-Marie. All right. And our sponsors for today’s episode are Rorohiko and InTools, and we’ll be talking more about them in a bit.
Anne-Marie: Let’s just jump right on into object styles.
David: I think so, because there are all these cool things about object styles.
Anne-Marie: Yeah and there’s been a lot of talk about them on the indesignsecrets.com forum as well, which is sort of like how we came up with this idea. And, you know, it’s interesting that a lot of people overlook object styles. You know, I was doing some training last week from people who are moving from CS1 to CS5.
David: Holy Moley.
Anne-Marie: Yeah, it was like eight designers. And they said how long would it take to do the training? So I’m like, oh, I don’t know, maybe at least a day, you know, maybe two days. And like, well, we have a morning. So I said, well, I can show you like the top 10 features I guess, but that’s hard to choose.
Anne-Marie: Anyway, you know, I did spend some time on object styles. I’m like, do you guys use styles? Oh, hardly ever. I’m like, OK.
David: Yeah, exactly. And that’s been our problem.
Anne-Marie: Well, I spent all morning talking about paragraph styles, you know, but we have lots to talk about, so…
David: Yeah. I mean, that’s the problem, is that a lot of people are still not up on paragraph styles and character styles properly. And we have talked plenty about those in previous episodes, but that’s something that’s really important, to get up on paragraph styles.
David: But once you master the paragraph styles, you really need to be using object styles if you want to be efficient in your layouts.
Anne-Marie: Well, especially if you think that, you know, everything that you basically can select with the selection tool is an object. So, you know, most publications are full of a lot of text. Of course, using paragraph styles will save you a ton of time. But also, most publications have more than a couple objects.
David: Right, right, right.
Anne-Marie: So using an object style would save you a lot of time.
David: It can definitely.
Anne-Marie: Most people work like they’re only using the basic paragraph style. You know, they just use the default object styles for text frames and other frames, and there’s some cool stuff.
David: And then everything they want something new, if they want a two column text frame they manually make it two columns. Or if you want a frame that has a stroke around it then, you know, you manually apply that, and then you end up doing that 50 times in a document. And then some of them are inconsistent because you don’t remember, was it one point or one and a half point or whatever. So, you know, it just behooves you to take the time to create object styles and then use them. But there are other things about object styles.
Anne-Marie: You get two points, two points, two points. I am going to write this down and keep track.
David: Two points?
Anne-Marie: Two points for using “behooves.”
David: Ooh, thank you.
Anne-Marie: I approve of that word. I like that one, behooves. [laughing]
David: But there are some things. Once you start using object styles and get used to using them, you can take object styles even farther. There are all kinds of things you can do with object styles that most people, even people who are using object styles. Don’t even know about or don’t think about, and so we wanted to talk about a few of those, some cool object style tricks. And one of them, you want to talk about paragraph styles? That’s something you usually…
Anne-Marie: Yeah. We’ll assume that most people have a lot of text frames, right, in their documents? And if you have a style that you like to use all the time, like maybe it’s your house style or your corporate font or something like that. You would create a paragraph style called, like, you know, Our Basic Paragraph Style, or Our Font, or Our Body, you know, Acme Body Copy. And it would be nice to be able to drag out a text frame and then start typing and it automatically has the correct style, right?
David: Yeah, yep.
Anne-Marie: Or, maybe every time that you make a sidebar you want the headline of the sidebar to have the sidebar head as the first paragraph. So you can create. What you do is you create a text frame. You make the first style, whatever the style it is that you want, and then with that selected go to the object styles panel and option or alt click on New Style to get the object styles options dialog box. And if you go down to paragraph styles, under Basic Attributes, you can see that if you have a little check mark to the left of it. You can have InDesign automatically switch to the correct style whenever you apply this object style to a text frame.
So you could take just a plain Jane text frame that you, you know, dragged out in the pace board and dropped in some Word copy for the sidebar. And then you apply this object style called Sidebar Style to it, and bam! The first paragraph automatically gets this first paragraph style.
And, of course, you can take that further if you applied like the next style right to that sidebar headline. The next style should be Sidebar Body. Then there is a check box here in the Object Style Panel that says Apply Next Style that you can turn on, so it’ll automatically apply the next style to existing text.
David: It’s an incredibly powerful feature. The ability to apply a paragraph style and then subsequent next styles if you want to, with an object style, is really amazing. You know what I use that all the time for, is captions, image captions. So I just make a paragraph style of captions and I set it up in my caption object style, so all I do is apply the caption object style and I get all of the appropriate object styles that I want on my captions, including things like Ignore Text Wrap because I want to put the captions on top of images and so on.
So I do all that objects formatting inside the Objects Style and then also automatically apply the paragraph styles. So it’s really very, very fast, a very efficient way to apply a bunch of formatting.
Anne-Marie: That’s the beauty of using an object style for a text frame, is that not only do you have some control over the paragraph style, but you have control over the object as well. So that caption idea is perfect because some people might be thinking, well, I have a caption paragraph style so why bother creating the object style? Well, because then you can also say, you know what? I think these should all have, you know, a drop shadow, or these should all, you know, we want the text to be aligned at the bottom because text frame options are part of this. You can say, align them all at the bottom of the frame rather than the top of the frame.
David: Perfect, yeah.
Anne-Marie: So, yeah.
David: Yeah? No, that’s a good one.
Anne-Marie: A lot of people think about object styles for images, but you know, they’re also very powerful for text frames, is what I’m trying to say.
David: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, the thing I hear most, the request I hear most about object styles is can I make an object style set to size and position on the page? And the answer is no. [laughing]
David: So it comes back….no you really can’t set the size of an object or the shape of an object or the position of an object on your page. There is one wacky work around that I wrote up for InDesign Magazine, I don’t know, a couple years ago, that I should throw out just because it’s kind of a hack, but it is, you can kind of set the position on the page, of an object. You can’t set the size of it, but if you want it the same size but you’re not sure exactly where, or you want to specify a particular place on the page where it should be, you can kind of do it, and you do it by turning it into an anchored object. Because anchored objects, you can specify where they sit on the page, right? You can’t do it for an inline object, but an anchored object, which can be anywhere outside of its text frame, can be.
So the trick is, a little hack, you take your object, maybe it’s a logo. You anchor it inside of a little tiny text frame that you can put anywhere on your page; it doesn’t matter. You can even make it really small.
And you make it an anchored object so it can fit outside of the text frame, and then you apply an object style. And in the object style you are going to use the Anchored Object Options pane of the object style dialog box, and you make sure it is a custom anchored object, and then you specify exactly where on the page with the Xrelative and the Yrelative to settings, you specify exactly where on the page you want it to go.
So that’s the only way that you can make an object style put an object at a particular place on your page. And, you know, that could be useful for someone. But honestly, I would much rather Adobe take object styles a step farther and say, you know, this is how big it should be, this is where it should be, and so on.
I’m hoping that they will be able to do that sometime in the future, make object styles really set up, not just the formatting, but even the shape of an object.
Anne-Marie: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I use object styles for that kind of thing all the time in a few projects. Like, I’ve written a few white papers for Adobe and they have this style that they want. Or even if it wasn’t one of those white papers, but any kind of time that you want to take margin notes, right, to flow along with the text? You can just create the anchored object and then turn it into a custom anchored object so it’s on the side. Then apply the object style. Create an object style from that.
David: Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Anne-Marie: So that from then on it’s just so much faster, being able to paste a text frame inside the running body and then apply the object style and boom, it is perfectly positioned off to the side.
David: You make a good point about how to make object styles. You’ve said it a couple of times now. I think it’s really important to emphasize. That is: apply the formatting that you want first to an object, and then make your object style. Then, as long as that’s selected, all of that formatting will be sucked up into the new object style dialog box. That’s really the fastest way to make an object style. The other thing I want to point out, having to do with anchored objects, though, is that you really should have a special object style applied to every one of your anchored objects. Time and time again, I find myself in a situation where someone sends me a file and they have a bunch of anchored objects or inline objects, and I need to make a change to all of them, like change where they are vertically. Move them up or down. There’s some change you want to make to all of your anchored objects. And you can’t select all your anchored objects.
Anne-Marie: Yes, that’s so difficult.
David: You can only select one at a time, which makes it very crazy making.
Anne-Marie: And I don’t think you can use … can you use fine change?
David: No. Not really, no.
Anne-Marie: Can’t use fine change really. What about in the fine change object?
David: Well, yes, I think you can in there, but you can’t do all the things you would want to do like positioning it inside, between the vertical positioning, or left right positioning. You can’t do that kind of thing. But if you have taken the time to make an object style, and applied that object style to all of your inline objects or your anchored objects, then it’s sort of a no brainer. You just change your object style definition and boom; it’s done throughout the entire document. So, really, take the time to apply object styles when you are using anchored objects or inline objects. You’ll save yourself a lot of time. Let’s move on. The one last cool trick has to do with completely contradicting ourselves about setting the size of your objects.
David: Because you can change the size of your objects. This is something you just taught me, actually, and I didn’t even think about before.
Anne-Marie: It is a distinct pleasure to teach you anything about In Design, let me tell you. It was the high point of my morning so far. [laughing]
David: Tell us about that. [laughing]
Anne-Marie: You can set the width of a text frame with an object style. It’s also slightly hacky but not really that hacky. What you do is in the object styles options dialog box; go down to text frame general options. These are text frame settings that you get with the number of columns and the insert spacing and vertical justification. If you turn on the check box there called fixed column width, that’s your answer. A lot of people think fixed column width is only if I have multiple columns, and it will work for multiple columns, but even if you just have one column, just a plain old text frame, once you turn that on the width field becomes enabled.
David: Right. Right.
Anne-Marie: You can type in five inches or 30 picas or whatever. Then whenever you apply this object style, the text frame becomes that exact width measure.
Anne-Marie: You can’t set the height, but the width is pretty useful.
David: It is. Let’s say you’re doing a sidebar or you’re doing a newsletter with very specific width of your text frames, the ability to with one click apply an object style where it sets the formatting of the object, let’s say a background tint or a stroke or something, and the paragraph style inside of that text frame, and the width, so it ends up exactly 15 picas wide or whatever you’ve set it to, is incredible. Just one click you’ve done all of that work. I think that’s great. That’s a great trick. Setting the width of a text frame.
Anne-Marie: That’s why people really need to pay attention to object styles. Because it just makes life so much more efficient and makes life easier. It makes me grind my teeth when I see people doing things one by one manually with this huge feature just sitting there.
David: It’s great.
Anne-Marie: So there it is. We want to hear all of your object style tricks, too, by the way, so please by all means post them to the show notes after we post this up there. Because people always come up with very clever ways to use object styles.
David: Absolutely. We should mention our sponsor. You mentioned earlier that Rorohiko was one of our sponsors. Rorohiko is the maker of lots of cool plugins, and also scripts and all kinds of good stuff for the community. Many of them are free. Some of them are not free. One of the ones we wanted to point out is a very cool plugin called Text Exporter. We’ve mentioned it before.
Anne-Marie: Oh yeah.
David: It’s a way to suck out all of the text from your document. Let’s say you’re archiving it or you’re sending it to somebody else to edit or you’re doing something. It sucks out all of the text. And you can apply certain attributes to it. For example let’s say you are archiving all of the text. You can say set all the text to black when you export it. Which is a really cool thing, right? Because you might have some white text or some red text or whatever, and you want it all to be black when you archive it because you just want to see the straight black and white text. That is a really helpful feature that they have stuck in there. There’s a bunch of other stuff in there too, in their dialog box. That’s just one of many things that you can do with it.
Anne-Marie: One of my favorite things is that you can set the limit of the number of characters that it’s going to export.
David: Right, right, right. Excellent.
Anne-Marie: Right? Because InDesign has some built in scripts that will export text but they’re brain dead. They’re really not usable. If you need to get the text from more than one story out at a time from InDesign, this will save you so much time.
David: Absolutely. It’s definitely the way to go. And for a limited time only they are offering a special discount if you get the 10 install coupon. Basically, if you want to get 10 of these for all of the people in your work group, you can get that for $40 off. So it pulls it down almost a third off. So that’s a great deal. Definitely check that out. We’re going to put a link in the show notes, or you can go to Rorohiko.com/indesignsecrets139.html It’s 139 because this is, of course, episode 139. So very nice, thank you Rorohiko.
Anne-Marie: Thank you Chris at Rorohiko. And now, fun times; let’s talk about our Quizzler winners. We had a fun Quizzler a couple episodes ago; about how many InDesign users does it take to change a light bulb.
David: Yes, that was silly.
Anne-Marie: And this time we’ve decided to go far more intellectual and have people hunt down obscure icons.
David: Right, right. I don’t know if it’s intellectual, but it was a good hunt, and we got some great answers from people all over the world looking for floppy disc icons.
Anne-Marie: Right, this was my idea, remember? You were like, “floppy disc icons?” And obviously you know about this as well, but it always cracks me up to see a floppy disc icon. You know, David, how long are they going to keep a floppy disc icon there? I bet today’s generation wouldn’t recognize a floppy disc if you threw one at them.
David: I know. That’s why when I was looking at this; I was thinking the appropriate answer to this quizzler is actually, “What’s a floppy disc icon? What’s a floppy disc?” [laughing]
David: You know, to me, a floppy disc, from the good old days, was 14 inches wide, hard shell. Literally, when I started with this they were hard shell, giant things that you had to use two hands to…
Anne-Marie: I remember the five inch floppies, and they were actually floppy.
David: Yeah. They were floppy. Those were floppy. Those were the real floppies.
Anne-Marie: No, but this is the three and a half inch not floppy disc icon.
David: Well they’re floppy inside. If you rip them open, they’re floppy inside.
Anne-Marie: That’s true. I have about 5,000 in the basement. I check them all out. [laughing]
Anne-Marie: There’s got to be some sort of recycling thing. Make a Christmas tree out of them or something.
David: You should definitely hold on to those.
Anne-Marie: I was thinking about siding my house or the garage with them, like shingles, you know cedar shingles?
David: Yes, yes. I think so. I think that’s going to be the new style.
Anne-Marie: Anyway, when I came up with the quiz I could immediately think of three places where it was found, but actually there are four.
David: Four places?
Anne-Marie: And once I realized…, oh yes, that’s right, there’s four. The first place I think that most people realize you see a floppy disc icon is when you import a Word file and you tell it to bring along the formatting.
Anne-Marie: Then any paragraph or character styles it brings along from the Word file will appear with little floppy disc icons to the right in the paragraph or character styles panel. Right?
Anne-Marie: And somebody pointed out that that’s also in the screen shot in the InDesign help files. [laughing]
David: Yes. I thought that was very clever.
Anne-Marie: They thought maybe that would count.
Anne-Marie: That was clever but no, we’re not counting that. We’re not counting anything in the help files. We’re not counting anything in the glyphs panel, which a bunch of people said, “Oh, yeah, if you choose wingdings and you go down to level 43, you know, there’s one…” [laughing]
David: Right, right, right. I thought that was really clever. I didn’t know that.
Anne-Marie: It was also clever. Yes it was, yes it was. And some guy said you could recall that in the numbering and lists dialog box.
Anne-Marie: Bring it up in all sorts of places.
David: All kinds of ways you can find that little glyph icon within a font.
Anne-Marie: I took another look…
David: It was a good one. It was an honorable mention. But that doesn’t really count.
Anne-Marie: All right, an honorable mention. So number one is the paragraph and character styles. Right?
David: Yup, yup, yup.
Anne-Marie: Number two, the one that a lot of people remember, is in fine change.
David: Yes, right.
Anne-Marie: You can save your fine change query. There’s a little disc icon to save it.
David: Yup, yup.
Anne-Marie: Right? That’s number two. Now number three was a little tougher. It separated the girls from the women in our responses, and that was in the books panel. At the bottom of the books panel there is a floppy disc icon, which means save the book.
Anne-Marie: It’s kind of interesting.
David: It is interesting. I’d completely forgotten about that one myself honestly.
Anne-Marie: It’s three. And the fourth one, the one that I was thinking of that would really kill everybody, and actually only a couple people guessed this was if you’re using version CS3 or earlier you have the command bar panel, I guess you’d call it, tool bar from the old Pagemaker days. And one of the icons there was a floppy disk icon to save the document.
Anne-Marie: Right. As far as I know, those are the four places, paragraph and character styles panel, find change, book panel. I’m counting paragraph and character styles as one, book panel and then the command bar. Nobody got all four.
Anne-Marie: We had a bunch of people get three of them, and through a random selection out of all of the people that got three of the correct locations the winner is Joao Carlos de Pinho.
David: From Brazil, all the way from Brazil. Indeed.
Anne-Marie: That’s right.
David: He is a winner.
Anne-Marie: Brazil does everything better. That’s what they said in 60 Minutes. Did you see 60 Minutes?
Anne-Marie: Apparently, the country is just rocking.
David: It is rocking. It is rocking.
Anne-Marie: Joao you answered command bar, book panel, and find change. I was shocked that you missed the paragraph and character styles panel one, but there you go.
David: I think he’s just one of these people who’s lucky enough not to have to work with Word documents. That must be what it is.
Anne-Marie: I think they mentioned it on 60 Minutes. I think they said that in the 60 Minutes show that nobody in Brazil has to work with Microsoft Word.
David: Wow. There’s a reason to move to Brazil.
Anne-Marie: That’s why their economy is booming.
Anne-Marie: That’s why they’re so happy, Carnivale. We don’t have to use Word. They’re dancing.
David: All right.
Anne-Marie: Congratulations, Joao. We will contact you. You win your choice of any webinar in our docket. I’ll send you a link. If anybody wants to check out our webinars, if you go to InDesignSecrets.com/webinars… If that plural or not? I actually don’t remember.
David: I think it’s just singular, webinar, I think.
Anne-Marie: Webinar. I just updated the page.
David: I’m wrong. I’m wrong. It’s webinars, webinars plural.
David: Yep. There we go.
Anne-Marie: Anyway, you can get a list. You can see all of the webinars and click through to the descriptions and choose the one that you want to see, and that’s what Joao will be able to choose, one of those.
David: Joao Carlos. There we go.
Anne-Marie: Joao Carlos.
David: I think we better mention sponsor number two. It is InTools. InTools is the maker of also lots and lots of great plugins and, for example, AutoFlow. They have this AutoFlow plugin which, if you’re doing things like textbooks, magazines, or if you’re doing complex layouts where you need to very quickly be able to change the layout. This is going to be a sidebar page. This is going to be a page at the beginning of a chapter or something. If you need to be able to automatically flow your text in and have it format the page itself, like actually change the master page based on the contents of the page, you definitely need to check out AutoFlow. They make a bunch of cool plugins for long document publishing. They also make a bunch of free scripts. Harbs just keeps knocking out these awesome, cool little scripts and posting them as freebies on his site. We’ll put links there as well in our Show Notes, but you can go to intools.com and check them all out for yourself.
The one other plugin I should mention actually, it just occurred to me, is PowerHeaders. If you’re doing like headings, if you need headings or footers or something, like for directories or, again, books or something like that, InDesign has its own heading feature which is soso, but PowerHeaders is awesome. It goes way beyond what InDesign does, and Jamie McKee just wrote a review about PowerHeaders in this week’s issue of InDesign Magazine.
So if you’re an InDesign Magazine subscriber, check out the review of PowerHeaders in InDesign Magazine. Good stuff, really good stuff from intools.com.
Anne-Marie: All right. Let’s go on to the keyboard shortcut of the week.
Anne-Marie: I think it would be more interesting if it was the obscure keyboard trick of the week, but we are going to let the audience decide.
Anne-Marie: Because we don’t want to do keyboard shortcut of the week, it’s Control W, close the window. Who cares? We just want to talk about interesting, more obscure ones, right?
David: All right. Well, this is a relatively obscure one. This is a relatively obscure one, Command option two or Control Alt two on Windows. The way you can remember what this thing is, is it has to do with something similar to Command two or Control two which Command two or Control two is obviously zoom to 200 percent.
Anne-Marie: It’s not so obvious. It’s not in the menu.
David: Oh, maybe, it’s not obvious. Maybe, that should have been our keyboard shortcut. Command two, let us just tell you then. Command number two zooms to 200 percent, and if you don’t know that one, now you do.
David: But if you add the option or the Alt key to that, you get a variant of that. It still has to do with zooming, with magnification, but it’s not just at 200 percent. It means toggle back and forth between the last two settings, the last two magnification views. So if you’re at, let’s say, 75 percent and then you zoom into 3000 percent, Command option two will go back to 75 percent. And then, press it again and you go back to 3000 percent. So you can go back and forth between the last two settings. That is pretty obscure. That counts as obscure. It’s very useful. I love it for going in and out of documents when I’m proofing, especially.
Anne-Marie: You know what? I never use that keyboard shortcut.
David: Well, that’s because…
Anne-Marie: I will have to do that.
David: You better.
Anne-Marie: Right. Right. So it’s one keyboard shortcut instead of having to memorize two keyboard shortcuts for two different zoom levels, and also there are custom zoom levels like 150 percent that don’t have a keyboard shortcut.
David: That’s right. Exactly.
Anne-Marie: So if you want to keep going back there, just use it. OK.
David: You’ve got it. There we go.
Anne-Marie: I will commit that to memory, and I start using it this week.
Anne-Marie: And I’ll report on the use next podcast.
David: Excellent. All right. You do that.
Anne-Marie: All right. Excellent. Thank you. And the Obscure InDesign Feature of the week, geek, geek, geek, geek was suggested by our friend at documentgeek.com. It’s this wonderful woman who writes a fantastic blog with cool tricks.
David: Hi, Kelly.
Anne-Marie: Hi, Kelly. It is spacing options.
David: Spacing options has to do with how spaced out you are as you’re working with InDesign.
David: No, that’s not it.
Anne-Marie: Yeah. OK. Spacing options, I will bet a lot of money that 95 percent of InDesign users will not be able to immediately go to spacing options if you say find me a word that says spacing options in this program.
Anne-Marie: You have sent me through it and remind me what Kelly suggested, and it’s actually something that oh, spacing options. It’s under the type menu. You go under document footnote options. There’s two tabs there for numbering and formatting, and then the second one is layout. Click on layout, and there you’ll see spacing options is the first section. It has to do with spacing the footnotes.
David: Yep, spacing out the footnotes. That’s what it is, how much space do you want between your footnotes, and how much space do you want before the first footnote and the text, between the footnotes and the text above it? typically, if you don’t want that footnote to be jammed right up against the text, you want to increase your minimum space before the first footnote setting in spacing options in footnote options in InDesign.
Anne-Marie: Whatever you set here applies to every single footnote in the document.
Anne-Marie: I get questions about that as well. Can’t we set up footnote styles? We want footnotes to be treated differently in the epilogue as opposed to the rest of the book or something like that. No, this is it.
David: This is it?
Anne-Marie: That’s another feature request. That’s what keeps the InDesign team in business, adding all these feature requests.
David: That’s right. Exactly. Anne-Marie; What I especially like about Kelly, you guys have got to visit her blog at documentgeek.com.
David: Yeah. We’ll put a link in there.
Anne-Marie: Because it’s like all sorts of InDesign tricks and Acrobat tricks and Photoshop tricks. She just really knows how to use features for what they were not meant to be used and gets some great results for her challenges there in her work. And what’s also cool is that she was the first one… Wasn’t she the first one to register for the conference?
David: I don’t know if she was the first one, but she will be at the Print & ePublishing Conference in Washington DC, and for those of you who hadn’t heard about that, Print & ePublishing Conference, Washington DC, May 23rd through 25th in DC.
Anne-Marie: That’s right.
David: It’s going to be an awesome show, and Kelly will be there and a bunch of other people, a bunch of our friends who were in Seattle, and other people from all around the world are coming into DC for that conference. It’s going to be an amazing show, an amazing show. Definitely check it out. You’re not going to want to miss this one.
Anne-Marie: This is it for Episode 139. Be sure to check out the Show Notes on our blog at InDesignSecrets.com where we’ll have links to all the places that we mentioned. We’d love to hear what you thought of the show. Leave a comment in the Show Notes. Start a topic on the forums or just email us at info@InDesignSecrets.com. And until the next episode, this is Anne-Marie Concepcion and…
David: David Blatner for InDesign Secrets.