Podcast 180 Transcript

To hear the audio episode from which this transcript was made, or to comment on this episode, go to the InDesignSecrets Podcast 180 page.
Anne-Marie Concepcion: Welcome to InDesign Secrets, episode 180. I want to say something deep about 180.

David Blatner: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: We did a 180! But I can’t think of anything.  Lot of podcasts. We’re on the other side of the atmosphere, or something. I’m Anne-Marie Concepcion, and I’m here along with my cohost, David Blatner.

David: Howdy! Our podcast and blog at indesignsecrets.com are the world’s number one resource for all things 180 InDesign.

Anne-Marie: [laughs] Yes. Coming up on today’s show, we have some news: the extension of the Creative Cloud special offer. We are going to be talking about GREP, which we haven’t talked about in about 100 episodes exactly.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: We’re looking back, and the last time we had GREP as a topic was in episode 80.

David: Wow.

Anne-Marie: Yes. So what’s new with GREP, and what is there to learn? If you’ve never used GREP, what is that? I get that question all the time. Let’s see. Quizzler results. I had fun this morning compiling those. We had a Quizzler last week on how many ways can you find the name of a link without looking at the links panel. We’ll talk about all the wonderful methods that people suggested.

Then the obscure InDesign feature of the week…Eek, eek, eek…

David: Eek, eek, eek…

Anne-Marie: …is “Jump object.”

David: Yes. “Jump object.” That is mildly obscure. It’s not super obscure, but it’s a good one to cover. Definitely.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: And we should mention that today’s episode is sponsored by Certitec and Rorohiko, our friends.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. Welcome back, Certitec and Rorohiko. In news, in our last episode, we mentioned that Adobe had said that to subscribe to the Creative Cloud at the lowlow discount price of 29.99 a month instead of 49.99 a month. Open to anybody who owned anything from CS3 or later, was going to expire August 21st, so hurry, hurry, hurry.

David: Right. [laughs]

Anne-Marie: Well, on August 31st, [laughs] they said, “You know what? We love you, guys, so we’re going to extend it,” and they didn’t put a deadline as far as I know on their special offer.

David: Yeah. They do mean to have a deadline. They seem to intend this as a special discount, but they didn’t say when. The other thing that was funny is they said, “This is because of great demand! Big demand! We’re going to extend the deadline.”

Anne-Marie: That’s depressing hearing them say that, you know? It’s just so sad. [laughs]

David: Well, they put in this positive spin, but it sounded to me like it was a lack of demand.

Anne-Marie: It was a desperate spin, it sounded like.

David: Yeah. It was a desperate spin, so that’s weird. Whatever the case, I don’t care. I’m happy that they’re doing it.

Anne-Marie: Absolutely.

David: It’s good. It’s good for everybody.

Anne-Marie: It’s a good deal. Again, that’s only for the first year. After the first year, then it goes up to 49.99 a month, which is still quite a good deal if you use more than one Adobe product.

David: It totally is.

Anne-Marie: Right.

David: No doubt about. And there’s other reasons why you might want to use the Creative Cloud as well. Adobe proved that by releasing at the beginning of this month extra features for Illustrator.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: That’s one of the things that they have been promising, saying, “Hey, if you’re a subscriber, we can sneak you additional features. You don’t have to wait for the big update.”

Anne-Marie: That’s right. It was interesting that one of the new features that Illustrator CS6 got was the ability to unembed links. I didn’t know you couldn’t unenbed before.

David: Well what’s sad is that is that all of the things you’re adding to Illustrator are already in design features. It’s like they’re looking over to the guy in the next cubicle, like, what’s he’s doing. Oh, he’s packaging. Oh, I want to do that.

Anne-Marie: [laughs] I try to get that update. And it wasn’t listed in my update. There’s an update for Dreamweaver, update for Photoshop, this is all CS6, but no update for Illustrator. And I know it’s there, so then I went on the boards, and they said, “Just download it separately.” You can go there and you can download it separately. But it won’t install if you are not a creative cloud member.

I try to doubleclick it and nothing happened. The Adobe application installer, that weird little program, comes up and it’s empty saying you are all uptodate. I’m like “God.” I used the good old trick of logging in to a test user on my account. I went to Illustrator and followed the instructions to check for updates and Illustrator CS6 just says, “Oh, we found an update. 601.”

David: Weird.

Anne-Marie: Or whatever it’s called. I don’t think it’s called 60B, might be called 601. Then I ran the update, and because applications are shared between all users on a computer I jumped back to my main user, and bop, there you go. I’m all updated.

David: How interesting. I wonder what happened?

Anne-Marie: Something crazy. My hard drive is just like a Fibber McGee’s closest.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: I’m sure that it’s all confused when it looked in my library settings or whatever. Always good to create, new pristine test user to do those kind of things.

David: That’s a very good point. I like that. Interesting. Well, the other thing that’s going to be happening with the creative cloud, that we should mention. This is going to be happening any minute now, Adobe is going to be allowing creative cloud members to create unlimited single edition DPS folios. This is iPad apps. You can make as many iPad apps as you want.

Anne-Marie: And sell them.

David: You can sell them, you can give them away for free. Doesn’t matter.

Anne-Marie: Single edition is the kind that you do not subscribe to. People can’t download little front end like you do for Wired, and then current issues get pushed to it. And do you want to download it. This is just a one off. But what’s wrong with that.

David: So what’s amazing is that doing this now, these are several hundred dollars each. And so going from several hundred dollars each to as many as you want, for $29.99 a month. That’s extremely compelling for a lot people. So we’ll see how that goes.

Anne-Marie: When is your app going to get done?

David: Any minute now. Any minute now.

Anne-Marie: OK. We’ll see.

David: The world that I’m waiting for, to be able to do DPS onto the Palm Pilot.

David: I’m waiting to be able to DPS onto the PalmPilot.

Anne-Marie: [laughs] I’m waiting for it to get on my Newton.

David: Yeah. Definitely.

Anne-Marie: Yes. Good old Newton.

David: One of the things I wanted to say about the Creative Cloud thing, it has to do with this issue around why Adobe can release features for subscribers and not to perpetual license users. Perpetual license is what they call people who consider themselves “buying” the product. In terms, buy the product.

Anne-Marie: Buying the license. The perpetual license is not a gravesite term.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: Something like “perpetual crypt,” or something like that.

David: Yeah. You have a perpetual license for this space in the graveyard, or for this software. Anyway, that’s a whole another subject. What I really [laughs] wanted to say is that there are reasons, there are accounting and legal reasons. Adobe could technically give these features to people who have purchased the product, but it is very difficult for them in terms of accounting.

There are legal ways that they could get around it, but it would be very bad for them, accountingwise. It all comes down to money. It’s so hard for them to do that, and it’s painful, financially, for them to do that. It just doesn’t make sense. Most companies, at least in America, cannot give features away that have value. They can’t just give them away. They have to release them as a paid upgrade.

That’s a long story there. We’ll put a link in the show notes to the discussion we had about this in one of the blog posts. Good stuff.

Anne-Marie: OK. Great.

David: Anyway…Anyway…

Anne-Marie: Anyway, welcome to Certitec. Those are our friends across the pond, in the UK, who are wonderful Adobe Authorized Trainers, doing all sorts of great training for InDesign and digital publishing. They are now delivering Adobe Digital Publishing Suite DPS one day and two day training courses in London and Cardiff.

If you’ve already taken the one day essentials course, you can just jump into the second day of the two day course and pay the difference.

David: Nice.

Anne-Marie: Which is pretty decent of them.

David: Yeah.

Anne-Marie: Let’s see. They have great discounts for what they call “self funding individuals.”

David: Yeah. This is also very decent of them. That’s very nice. If you are paying for this course yourself, rather than having some big company pay for it, they’re giving you a special discount, 25 percent off any of the courses. It’s a really nice deal. There’s other deals you can get as well. Paid by five days, you get two days free. They’ve got a bunch of stuff that they can do there.

Anne-Marie: However, you only get that 25 percent discount if you say InDesign Secrets.

David: Woohoo!

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: Do it.

Anne-Marie: Make sure and say that. There you have no blackout dates and no penalties just because you are self funding. It’s a really good deal.

David: It is.

Anne-Marie: Take advantage of that at certitec@certitec.com.

David: Yeah. Anybody in the UK, you’ve got to know about Certitec, for sure. Excellent. Hey, GREP. We should talk about GREP. We talked about GREP 100 episodes ago, which is weird. 100 episode. Years ago, we were talking about GREP. But the funny thing about GREP back then, was you could only pretty much use it in the Find/Change dialog box.

Anne-Marie: What version was that, David?

David: I think version minus eight.

Anne-Marie: [laughs]

David: I don’t know. Maybe CS3?

Anne-Marie: CS3.

David: Sure. All right. It’s a long time ago. It’s all a blur.

Anne-Marie: I know.

David: But in CS4, we got the feature known as GREP styles. GREP styles is a great way to use GREP inside any paragraph. It’s like doing an automatic Find/Change. We’ve talked about this a little bit, probably, at some point. It’s like doing an automatic Find/Change inside any paragraph as part of the paragraph style.

It’s awesome. There’s so much on InDesign Secrets about GREP. You’ve really got to check that out. We’ll put the links, of course.

Anne-Marie: I would like to back off a little, though, and just talk to the people who have never used GREP and they’re like, “Oh, God! They’re talking about this horrible thing again.”

David: OK. You do it.

Anne-Marie: All right. People I often hear, “Why should I use GREP? Why don’t I just use Text Find/Change? The two panels look almost exactly alike when you first look at them.”

David: OK.

Anne-Marie: There are a number of advantages for using GREP. Let’s just take a very simple example, one that I was working on this morning, when I was compiling these answers for a Quizzler. A lot of people sent them as email, and they were numbered lists. When I copy and paste them into InDesign, they come in as hard text numbered lists. One, two, three, four, up to 22, 23, with a tab, and then starting it.

Wanted to get rid of those numbers and the tab so that it’s just a series of paragraphs and then apply the numbered list style to it. Because I was going to turn off numbering for some and so on.

David: Yeah, a very common problem, sure.

Anne-Marie: Very common. Right. So if I used text find change, you can search for any number. They do have, there are four wildcards in normal text find change. You can search for the caret followed by a nine. That means find any number here. If you go to text find change, go to the bottom, go to wild cards.

That mean it’ll find the one, the two, the three, all the digits. Then if you leave the change to or replace field empty, then it’ll get rid of it. But you can’t search for one or two wild cards in a row.

David: Or three or four.

Anne-Marie: So I had to do a search for one and then repeat it again to get the single digits left from the twodigit numbers. But if you were using GREP you could say “search for one or more digits in a row.”

David: Yep.

Anne-Marie: Here’s another one. When I was doing those text find change, you had to worry about, “What if there are numbers within the sentence?”

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: Now, I was able to figure out, “Well, I could just say “paragraph marker” followed by one digit.” But if you are in GREP find change, you can specify location.

David: Exactly.

Anne-Marie: So only search for numbers at the beginning. Or say that you’re looking for double periods that you might have entered by mistake at the end of a sentence or paragraph, you could say, “Only search at the end of a paragraph.”

David: Yeah. Yep.

David: Because ultimately GREP is all about finding patterns in text and that’s the key. If you can identify a pattern, then you can make a GREP query about it. You put a little caret mark at the beginning of it and it means it has to be at the beginning of the paragraph. It has to be.

It won’t find anything except at the beginning of the paragraph because of that little character, that little caret is there.

Anne-Marie: Another useful features for beginners is just the fact that you can find one or more, it’s another point that I was trying to make, is that in your document it looks great, except that you have a lot of things that are in all caps and you’d like them all to be in small caps.

You can use GREP find change to find all capital letters that are repeated one or more times, any wild card capital letter, and then apply a style to it that you specify to be small caps.

David: Right. What a little painful, though, is you cannot in InDesign, find all those capital words, words that are in all caps, and change them to lower case automatically. InDesign has no way of changing upper case characters to lower case characters and then applying small caps.

We have some workarounds for that which we’ll put in the show notes. We’ll put links to them. But it’s a bit a hassle there. But there’s no doubt that GREP is incredibly useful. It is one of the most important tools for anybody doing long documents. I’m talking magazines, newspapers, books, anything.

Anything where you have a lot of text, you just have to spend just an hour, an hour or two learning a little about GREP and you will become way more efficient in your work.

Anne-Marie: Yeah. I don’t think they even need an hour or two.

David: OK, how about 15 minutes? Start with 10 or 15 minutes. In fact, we have a link. I’ve wrote up a little cheat sheet for GREP codes for InDesign called “favorite GREP expressions you can use.” We’ll put the link in the show notes to go check that out.

But it has a bunch of codes and a bunch of examples that you can just steal, go ahead and just copy and paste them into your find change dialog box or into your GREP styles field and use them.

How to make a fraction, how to grab anything that looks like a fraction and turn it into a real, open type fraction. Or, like you were saying, all spaces at the end of a paragraph. If there’s a bunch of extra spaces at the end of a paragraph, what is the code for find all spaces at the end of a paragraph, Then do something with them.

Anne-Marie: A really good, simple one for beginners is just to use the pipe for “or” searches. That’s the one right above the backslash, the straight upanddown bar. If you are looking for a word that might be in singular or plural, you can just enter both and separate it with a pipe. Use it exactly the same as you would Text Find/Change, except you can separate as many different instances, like find “cat or cats or catalog.”

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: There’s probably smarter ways to do that, but honestly, just simple “cats or dogs or parrots.” Say that, OK.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: I know. I can hear the gears moving in your brain, but those…

Names of five different countries, for example, every time that a country is mentioned, you want a certain style to appear. That’s just the ability to do an “or” search rather than running two or three Text Find/Changes is really simple.

David: Yeah.

Anne-Marie: One other thing that is very powerful about GREP, it goes back to my first example of using wildcards. When I said that you cannot use a wildcard in a replace field in Text Find/Change, but in GREP Find/Change, there is a certain way to do that. You can say “Find something,” and then, in Replace, you can say “Replace it with what you found.”

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: Why would you ever want to [laughs] find something and then replace it with what you found? It makes no sense. But often, you want to do that because you want to change something about what comes right before or right after what you found. Find every instance of somebody’s name, and then change the honorific to “Mr.” or something like that.

David: Yeah. Sure. I could see it doing that. Definitely.

Anne-Marie: OK.

David: There’s lots of examples of why you’d want to do that to Find/Change. Again, in the show notes, we’re going to put links to a bunch of places to learn about GREP. I did a title at lynda.com about it, it’s 45 minutes…

Anne-Marie: Yeah. That’s a great one.

David: …where you can learn about cool things that you can do with InDesign and GREP. Michael Murphy has an even longer title, but even if you just copy and paste some of these little examples out of the blog post, you’re going to find yourself becoming much more efficient very quickly. It’s been 100 issues, 100 episodes. It’s time to say, once again, “Go learn GREP! This is your time!” So good job.

All right. We should mention Rorohiko is the second sponsor today. Rorohiko, we mentioned last time, has this wonderful tool called ePubCrawler, which lets you make fixedlayout EPUBs right out of InDesign. You could lay out your page the way you want it to look in the EPUB and then use ePubCrawler to create the EPUB for you. It’s astonishing. That’s all we need to say about that.


David: They have movies. The folks at Rorohiko have movies about how you can use it, how you should use it, how you can customize it to the way that you want it to work. It’s good stuff. You should definitely check that out. If you’re doing anything with fixedlayout EPUB, you’ve got to check it out, period.

Good. Right now, it’s free. It’s free, right now. You can just grab it, play around with it, and give them feedback. It’s like a public beta. They’re going to start charging for this pretty soon, but if you donate $50 now to their effort, a good faith effort, they’ll give it to you free. It’s probably going to be a couple 100 bucks later on, so you’re saving a lot of time by paying a little bit now.

That’s right. A good thing.

Anne-Marie: OK. Now, time for the Quizzler winner.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: To recap, our Quizzler question from episode 179 was “You select an image that you have placed into an InDesign document, but the Links panel is not accessible to you, for whatever reason. How can you find out the name of that file that you have placed?

What is the name of a placed graphic, without using the links panel or the shortcut to open up the links panel, or the links panel menu. Nothing having to do with the links panel.

David: Right. I know, you print it out and you bring it to your photographer and you say, “What was the name of this thing?”


Anne-Marie: That’s a good one. Very good. We got a bunch of great responses, but most people knew that you could use live captions, which I thought was very clever. Live captions has been around since CS5. That’s when you select the object, go to the object menu, go down to captions and choose, generate live caption or generate static caption.

The default setting is it shows you the file name in a caption automatically.

David: Yes.

Anne-Marie: A couple people said make sure it’s set to file name. Only Sandy Cohen, I believe, remember that you can also get that caption from the variable. That was the one that I was looking forward to seeing, if anybody’s caught the fact that you could get that from a variable. Go to the type menu, go down to text variables, insert variable, image name.

David: Right.

Anne-Marie: Yeah, cool.

David: Which is basically the same thing as the caption.

Anne-Marie: Yeah, But it’s a different place, it’s a different command.

David: I agree.

Anne-Marie: OK. But yes, it is the same thing. Unfortunately, Sandy, you’re not eligible to win, because you are a contributor. But she did come in. The total was something like 20 some answers, which was, far and away, the most number of answers.

I went through them, though, and collapsed some of them like everybody else did. Instead of saying, “You can select an image and choose reveal in mini bridge, reveal in the finder, reveal in bridge, reveal in explorer, as four different answers, that’s just one.

David: I see.

Anne-Marie: But that was one. You select an image, right click, and go to graphics. You can choose reveal in finder, reveal in bridge, reveal in mini bridge and that will pop it open. So that one I counted…

A lot of people said, “Well, you can export it to HTML and then look in the code,” but I think that’s stretching it a little too far, because they’re going to have to…

David: I like that.

Anne-Marie: Well, you have to then, open up. Not only do you export, but you’re creating a whole other file. Then you have to go to another program, then you have to open up the file.

David: I know. But it’s thinking outside the box, I give credit for that.

Anne-Marie: I thought it was interesting that you could tell that there was a bunch of old Quark users who answered, because we got more than a couple people who said, “Hey, you can go to file package, generate a report, and then look in the report and it’ll be listed.” That ain’t true for InDesign. It’s only true for Quark, Quark used to do that.

But InDesign will only list missing or embedded images.

David: Oh, fascinating.

Anne-Marie: Or no, missing or out of date is what it lists. Yeah, missing or out of date.

Anne-Marie: But if you go to the package command, a lot of people got this one correct, if you go to the package command and select links and images, then all images are listed there by name.

David: It shows up in the dialog box, but not…

Anne-Marie: It’s in the dialog box, but not in the report.

David: Aha, excellent.

Anne-Marie: A couple very clever people mentioned that, speaking of reports, you can generate a report or even just look in the preflight profile. If you set up preflight profile to automatically catch all images like “flag any images that are below 1200 ppi.”

James Fritz suggested use any color space whatsoever, then it will show you, “Oh, you have something that violates your preflight settings. “It will give you the name of the image, both in the dialog box and in the report.

David: Interesting.

Anne-Marie: Yeah, I thought it was cool. I would say the actual winner was, well, other than Sandy, who’s disqualified, was Marion Tompa who came up with 11 very good, unique ways that were repeated, I believe. I don’t think he got any that no one else got at all.

But Marion, what does he need, a copy of InDesign Essentials Training for? He’s an InDesign, he can probably record that InDesign Advance Scripting Essentials. So Marion, you did great. A few that Marion listed that some other people listed as well were layers panel, layers panel in the most recent versions of InDesign lists every object name, just select it and open up its sub layer in the layers panel.

Animation panel, only he and Sandy remember there’s an animation panel in InDesign and if you select an object and open up the animation panel, it appears right there.

David: Really?

Anne-Marie: If you apply a preset animation to the object, not just look at it or select it, then it will also appear in the timing panel. It was only Marion, maybe somebody else, I think it was only Marion. Sandy didn’t get this one, that you can add it to the articles panel.

Because everything that you add to the articles panel, which is normally used for PDF or EPUB export, takes on the name that it has in the layers panel and, by default, images get their actual file name in the layers panel.

A lot of people realize that if you are using CS6, which has the new link badge on the frame, if you hover your cursor over the link badge, the file name appears there.

David: [laughs] Oh gee, I didn’t know that.

Anne-Marie: I like that.

David: I must have seen it, but fascinating.

Anne-Marie: Yeah, it’s a good one. About half of the users got the fact that if you tag, if you apply an XML tag to an image. Then you look in the structure panel and you twirl open where it says root. You’ll see the path to the image, and the last part of the path will be the image file name. That’s pretty arcane.

So without Marion and without Sandy, the winner out of all the other people who replied, we believe, is Jim Leonardson.

David: Woohoo!

Anne-Marie: Congratulation Jim Leonardson. He is somewhere in the Chicago area, because he has the same area code as I do, unless that’s a cell phone and he moved somewhere. Jim, we will email you and you win a copy of David’s…

We gave him a choice, didn’t we?

David: We did between the real word “InDesign, CS6” the book or InDesign, CS6, essential training, the video.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: From Lynda.com

Anne-Marie: I thought Jim was interesting, because he was the only one who got the info panel one correct.

David: Yeah, that was interesting.

Anne-Marie: A lot of people mentioned. Well, if somebody entered the name of the image in the title of the XMP metadata, then you could discover that through object, object export options, or in the info panel. If you go to the info panel menu and choose file info, then it lists all the XMP data.

But a lot of images don’t have the file name listed as the title or the description. There’s something there if anybody went to the trouble of doing that in the first place. Jim pointed out that if you select an image and you go to the info panel. Then you choose file info from the info panel menu, the title of the XMP window, the title, will show the name of the image, the title bar of the dialog box.

David: That’s right.

Anne-Marie: You don’t have to look inside of a field. I thought that was very clever. I never realized that.

David: [laughs] It’s obscure. That’s way obscure. Hey, I have a correction to make. I would like to say we officially correct a comment you made earlier about reports and packaging. The package report, you were saying, does not include the name of the file. Right?

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: You were saying, “Oh yeah, back in Quarkexpress…” But it does.

Anne-Marie: OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: I was testing this.

David: Wait, hold on. If you make a package and then click report and then view the report that InDesign makes when you make a package, it does not include it. However, if you open the package dialog box and you click on the report button, there’s actually a report button in there and the report that you get out with that report button is different than the report that you’d get if you package it.

Anne-Marie: Wait a minute.

David: Isn’t that twisted?

Anne-Marie: Yes, run that past me one more time. If I make a package and I say “include report,” inside that report…

David: It does not include the image.

Anne-Marie: …it does not list it. That’s correct.

David: But, if you select package from the file menu and up comes the dialog box, there’s a little button there that says report. If you click that button, then you do get the information. The reason is the report button inside the package dialog box actually gives you all the information that’s in the dialog box.

That report button just gives you the same data that you see in the dialog box, but in a text file. That’s different than the report you get when you actually…

Anne-Marie: Oh, you’re right. It even lists the names of the fonts and everything.

David: Isn’t that twisted?

Anne-Marie: Yes, that is twisted. I don’t think that affects the winner. But that is a very good man, you just ruined another obscure InDesign feature.

David: You’re right. Dang. Dang. We actually mentioned that.

David: I hate to say, I actually wrote a blog post about that and I had completely forgotten about it, back in 2007, I wrote a list about this. There’s also another one that I wrote a blog post about. No, I’m sorry. You wrote a blog post about in 2009, about one other option, one other way to get a list of all the linked files without looking in the links panel.

That is a script. There’s a script called Image Scripts, that you run that and it makes a little text file of the names of all of the images in your document. It’s also kind of cheating, but still, it’s very cool, because some people need that. But you just need a list of all of your images.

Anne-Marie: I do have you tell you that Sandy, then, got that one right. I apologize, Sandy. Because she said you copy and paste the image so that it’s in its own InDesign file, you choose file, package, then you click the report button.

David: Ah, there we go.

Anne-Marie: She didn’t say, actually, make a packet. She clicked the report button and exported the report. Then you choose file place, place the text file. So you don’t have to leave InDesign at all.

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: Then it’ll be listed in the text. It says, “This method is in case you are too dense to realize the name is in the dialog box where you chose package.”

David: These are just wonderfully twisted.

Anne-Marie: [laughs]

David: We’re going to talk about the obscure InDesign feature of the week.

Both: …eek, eek, eek, eek.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: Jump object. We’re jumping from one obscure feature to another obscure feature, jump object. Which lives where?

Anne-Marie: It lives in the run around panel.


Anne-Marie: Sorry, it’s a Quark joke. It lives in the text wrap panel.

David: In Quark Express it was called run around.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. In the text wrap panel it’s the last, fourth one or fifth one, or both.

David: Fifth button. No, I’m sorry, fourth button. It’s the second to last. The last one is jump to next column. But the fourth one is jump object. Jump object means jump over this object. You can put text above it and below it, but you may not put text to the left or right.

Anne-Marie: Yeah, that saves a lot of time so you don’t have to fiddle around with the bounding box to make it really wide left and right.

David: I know, I still see people doing that all the time. You’ve got a wide column of text and you’re putting something in the middle of the column and they’re like, “Oh, I better change the size of the object, because I don’t want the text to go on the left or right.”

Anne-Marie: Right, or change the…

I have to unlink the….

Make all settings the same in text wrap and then make the left offset and right offset really big.

David: Right, there’s all those workaround, but forget all that. That’s crazy, just use jump object, which makes InDesign force the text to go above and below, but you cannot put text in the left and right.

Anne-Marie: Also a good troubleshooting technique. I’ve gotten at least one time somebody said, “Why isn’t this text wrapping on the side of this object? I have text wrap turned on,” and they were going crazy. It’s because they thought that that fourth button meant, “Text wrap.”

David: Oh, interesting.

Anne-Marie: And I’m like, “No, it’s a special kind of text wrap. What you’re looking for is the second one.”

David: Right. Right. Interesting. Text wrap number two, not text wrap number 4.

Anne-Marie: [laughs] You idiot!

David: [laughs]

Anne-Marie: Speaking of that…

David: It’s obscure.

Anne-Marie: Speaking of that, speaking of “You, idiot!” I’m putting out a call. Dave and I were chortling about something earlier, and we thought it would be really funny…

If you’ve ever seen the website “Clients From Hell,” where designers, just anonymously, report on crazy things their clients have said, like “We need more white space and there’s not a bit of white space left,” or something like that.

We want to do an occasional feature called…What are we going to call it?

David: Oh…

Anne-Marie: We were going to start a podcast called “Cranky InDesign Trainer.”

David: “Cranky InDesign Trainers.”

Anne-Marie: That’s right. “Cranky InDesign Trainers.” A call to anybody out there who teaches InDesign in a school. as a trainer. as a seminar leader, or you’re just the trainer in your office, that designated InDesign guru who teaches people stuff. We would love for you to record, because we want to play it, all right? We want you to record in. We’re not going to show your face or anything, but record.

You can call us an leave it in a voice mail or a phone number. You can record it in anything else and then email it to us. We’re going to play it on the air. We’re not going to name you unless you want us to say, “Yes, this is from Jennifer.” Give us something no longer than a minute or a minute and a half of a story of a crazy InDesign training question that somebody asked you.

David: Well, we’re just…

Anne-Marie: Yes. A cranky story.

David: Some training experience from Hell.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: What was the worsecase thing, where you just want to get cranky about it. Like, “Can I just get cranky about this for a minute?” I like the idea of calling us.

Anne-Marie: Yes, call us.

David: Our phone number is in the States, so it’s +1 to get into the States, 801-459-4477.

Anne-Marie: That’s right.

David: But if you have any easier way to record your voice on your computer, which shouldn’t be a big deal. Just record it using Audacity or some other program, and then send us that little text file. Under one minute. It must be short; under one minute.

Anne-Marie: But the voice mail option works fine, because it gets sent to us as an mp3 file.

David: I know, but it’s not very good quality.

Anne-Marie: OK, All right. Unless they have a very good phone.

David: If they have a very good phone.

Anne-Marie: Yes.

David: The iPhone5.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. If you have a very recognizable voice, Sandee Cohen. You might want to disguise it, if you don’t want your clients to like, “What? I can’t believe you’re saying that!” But we are also going to send out email requests to some trainers that we know to say “Hey, check this out. This could be a lot of fun”. So hopefully we will get at least a couple we can play in the next podcast or two.

David: Awesome.

Anne-Marie: Awesome.

David: OK, so that is it for episode 180!

Anne-Marie: 80! 80! 80!

David: Insert clever comment about 180 there.

Anne-Marie: That’s right. OK.

David: Be sure to check out our show notes on our blog at indesignsecrets.com. We’re going to have links to all the places we mentioned and there’s a lot of them. We would love to know what you thought of the show, so insert a comment in the show notes, start a topic in the forums, or email us at info@indesignsecrets.com. Until we meet again, this is David Blatner and Anne-Marie Concepcion for InDesign Secrets.


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