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This article is from July 5, 2012, and is no longer current.
Workaround for a Pantone Plus selection glitch in CS6
A newly-minted InDesign CS6 user e-mailed us this query:
I wanted to see if there is a way to change the display of the Pantone Plus book colours instead of by colour/grouping, listing them numerically. If you try to type certain numbers in it, you can’t find them (ie: 543 always defaults to 5435 and you aren’t allowed to change it/delete the additional “5”). Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, I can’t see any way to change the order of the swatches in any of the color libraries in the New Swatch dialog box. My guess is that since they’re embedded in a dialog box (as opposed to a panel, as in Illustrator, where you can sort a library’s swatches by name), InDesign can’t really provide that flexibility.
It is frustrating that in earlier versions, though, you could enter “543” in the Pantone spot color Find field to get Pantone 543, and “5435” to get 5435; but you can’t in CS6-as you said, it always jumps to 5435. The only way I was able to find Pantone 543 in the screen shot below was by typing “54” and then using my up and down arrow keys for a few minutes until I found the sucker.
I believe this is a bug with the new Pantone+ libraries in InDesign CS6, and hope that it’s something easily fixed in an upcoming patch.
In the meantime, I have a somewhat drastic, but I believe safe, workaround: Add an older version Pantone swatch library back into the program, and use that to select your spot color.
Adding back an older Pantone swatch library
Before I get to the how-to on adding a swatch library to InDesign CS6 (and it’s quite simple), let me explain. The main difference between the older Pantone libraries and the new Pantone+ ones in InDesign CS6 is how the spot colors are defined internally for on-screen display: as CMYK (old version) or Lab (new Plus version). The Lab values, having a wider gamut, give a more accurate preview on screen. Illustrator has been using Lab values for its Pantone spot colors since CS2.
For the past few versions of InDesign, you could (and still can) make the older Pantone swatches use Lab definitions by choosing “Use standard Lab values for Spots” in the Ink Manager (available in the Swatches panel menu). When InDesign is using the Lab values, a little icon indicating a Lab color next to the spot color icon appears – here it is in close-up:
The Lab color definition is also used if you convert your spot colors to process, or if objects filled with a spot color are part of certain transparency effects. If you’re working in a tightly managed color workflow, you’ll need to pay attention to these kinds of things. But if all you’re doing is using a spot for a spot, when you print out CMYK + spot separations, it makes no difference how things looked on screen. Whether Pantone 5435 is defined to display onscreen as Lab or as CMYK, either will end up on the same separation plate and be the same exact ink on paper.
Okay, now let’s move on to the how-to: I found a wonderful Adobe help document all about Pantone Plus, aimed at Illustrator users, that also has instructions for InDesign users. It’s called Pantone Plus color libraries, and instructs Illustrator (and InDesign) users how to replace the newer Lab-based Pantone libraries with the older CMYK-based ones. (I would never recommend that personally, but I suppose if for some reason that’s the only solution for your workflow, it’d be a relief to know how to to switch back.)
What’s great is that for our purposes, this Help file has a ZIP file of the Pantone libraries, so we don’t have to use the Pantone Color Manager application (a bit problematic) to fiddle with our swatch libraries, we can just drag and drop them manually. Look at that Pantone Plus color libraries online document, about 2/3 of the way down (at the end of its “Workaround 1” instructions), and you’ll find a link to the older Pantone swatch libraries, Older_Pantone.zip. Download that zip file, extract the contents, and copy over just the libraries you need to your InDesign application folder.
The “Workaround 1: Adobe InDesign CS6” steps in the Help file show you exactly where the files should go, so follow their instructions. Remember though that the instructions are all about replacing files, but we’re not doing that .. .just adding them. The filenames are different so there’s no worries. The new ones you add appear at the bottom of the list. Here I added PANTONE solid coated and PANTONE solid matte, the spot libraries I use 99% of the time:
Now if I find I’m fighting with an overly zealous autocomplete in CS6’s Pantone swatch picker, I can just quickly switch to the older Pantone library at the bottom of the dropdown menu. In that library, I can enter “543” in the spot color Find field and get Pantone 543, simple as that. (Remember, it’s the same color as the Pantone+ library!) If I want Pantone 5435, I can use either the Pantone+ or the older Pantone library.
To keep things consistent, make sure InDesign always uses Lab values for spots by enabling that checkbox in the Ink Manager. Do this with no documents open so it becomes an application default.
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Well that just? sucks. You know, the Pantone plus series swatch books are set up exactly the same (at least the ones we got a year or two ago). It drives the pressmen at our print shop crazy. You have to flip to the back pages to look at an index first to see what page the pms number is on. As a result, everyone just uses our old swatch books for reference instead.
Don’t have CS6 yet, so I can’t try this. At some point in the past (and I don’t remember if it was for InDesign or Illustrator), you had to type a space before the 3-number codes to easily select them. And you had to type quickly. Anybody tried that?
I am using Illustrator CS6 and you are correct. I have to type a space very quickly before the PMS number.
Hi Tom, I was so hopeful! But no, it doesn’t work. As soon as you enter a space, it autoenters “Yellow” (and selects Pantone Yellow) and you can’t change it. Bizarre.
I have gone further, renaming the library of Pantone+Coated in InDesign and pasting the one from Illustrator CS6 if it could do a change. Nope.
The reading order of those files in ID is messed, some higher numbers appear on top of a second group with lower values, they are not listed sequentially,…
In AICS6 they work smoothly, and that 543C is not a swatch I had tried in ID some months ago.
I do notice after some swatches e.g 357C IDCS6 places 3 groups of 7 new swatches before the 358C appears, or 483-489 are listed in reverse order and then followed by 176-181C.
I believe it’s a bug that could be corrected easily and soon.
I’ve found that linking a legacy (CS5) Illustrator file in a new InDesign file (CS6) creates a swatch with a LAB value even if you have the work around (Older Pantone) libraries loaded into InDesign. The illustrator file uses the CMYK value, the resulting swatch in InDesign is LAB. This causes a problem if you turn on “All spots to Process” in InDesign. The resulting Process formula is different then the older CMYK formula. Is there any way to force InDesign to use the older CMYK formula?
I did find one run around but it’s not a fun one. If you import the Illustrator file and delete it leaving the swatch in InDesign you can change the definition to the legacy color book (Pantone Coated in this case). If you then Place the Illustrator file again the older definition seems to stick. If you turn on All Spots to Process in InDesigns Ink Manager the resulting recipe is correct. If anyone figures out a better solution please post it. It’s probably better at this point to convert the Illustrator file to process and update or save a converted version of the file and relink. Of course, the former option gives you the flexibility of setting up a job as spot colors but having it separate correctly if it needs to print as a process job.
I found a simple way to find those 3-digit Pantone swatch numbers in InDesign/Illustrator, just out of trial and error:
Type a space after the number.
For example, for Pantone 543, type:
5-4-3-space
Because each number is listed as ### C or #### C, if your 4th character is a space, it’ll search for that.
Now if only the same method would work in Photoshop. Tried to find 542 by typing 5-4-2-space and it still sticks on 5425. :P
That’s the one! Thank you!
i came across this discussion while looking for a solution to another PMS issue i am finding with the new ID CS6 and it looks like this group of people might have an answer. when i open up older files from CS5 and send them to my shop to print the color is drastically different; in addition when i copy objects with pms colors attached to a new doc in ID CS6 the screen color and subsequent print is different.
specifically i am using 668U which now i have to change to 668c to get it to match more closely the color it used to print. i really dont want to have to rework my entire style-sheet/swatch libraries just because adobe decided pantone output should print colors differently now; this seems counter to the idea of having a system for consistency if that is the one thing it is now not. i dont think coke would like there tried and true pantone red to output pink??? can anyone tell me what gives?
thanks in advance.
To add another wrinkle to all of this. If you use the new Pantone libraries in an AI CS6 file, the ones that define the display color as a LAB, all of those colors will display as black if you use Apple’s Preview function. They will also display as black if you drag and drop the file into a PowerPoint presentation. You can manually fix the problem by changing each Book Color swatch to either CMYK or RGB, but why?
Brian, thanks so much…
My problem is this. We print pms colors all the time. IdCs6
does not recognize the spot colors that go through the rip.
So we get a blank plate. If I pick up an old job and print it it does fine. But any new job won’t . Help
@joe: Hard to know what’s going on. I suggest you use the Forums above (instead of writing on the blog post comments section) so more people can see it. InDesign CS6 works fine with spot colors, separating them on their own plate. But we’d need to understand your workflow better (what are you importing into InDesign, are you exporting to pdf, etc.)
Brian Schmidt – you rock.
Your comment above fixed my problem. I could not find the 541U for the life of me, it kept coming up with 5415U. I would scroll around it and it was no where to be seen.
Adding a space after the 3 digit name worked perfectly. Thank you.
@joe I was having the same problem, LAB colors not being recognized by the RIP. See my post in the forums.
indesignsecrets.com/forum/general-indesign-topics/lab-color-the-rip
@Brian Schmidt – Thank you thank you thank you. Simplest fix ever.
Thanks for this. Unfortunately, Designers often use a spot color swatch and then convert it to CMYK for 4-color jobs.
Now they will get a different CMYK value depending on if
1. it is an old swatch opened in CS6 (converted, keeps old CMYK value)
2. Created a new swatch with the old library (adding the old Pantone library does NOT transfer the old CMYK values, it “revises them and they don’t even match Pantone +)
3. used the Pantone + swatch
4. Pasted an old swatch from CS5 doc into a new CS6 doc (color will change when you paste).
Only opening the swatch from a CS5 doc retains old settings. There is no way to paste an old swatch and keep old CMYK values.
Sadly, even if you use the Pantone + CMYK or Pantone + Color Bridge Coated (CP), those CMYK swatches also are NOT the same values as the old Pantone CMYK process coated (PC) swatches.
For CMYK the only way to keep vaules the same is create your own swatch by hand for each color. is there a better way? Real spot colors are not a problem, but CMYK swatches are… is there a better way?
I agree with Bret.
The work around on the Adobe website doesn’t work:
https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/pantone-plus.html#main-pars_text_11
I did as they said, deleted Pantone+ colour books and added the old ones, they show up fine in ID6 but they all have the lab colour icon beside them. Same with Illustrator, LAB colour icon and incorrect CMYK breakdowns.
Have they to changed all of the physical Pantone/CMYK bridge books to reflect these changes? or are they incorrect?
And how do we get clients logos to look the same going forward?
Yes, all the books have been changed. Apparently Pantone did this to make US and European books the same (before Pantone plus they did not match) In a perfect world, our clients would revise their CMYK breakdowns to match the new Pantone + values, but good luck with that. The only way to reliably get the old CMYK values is to enter them by hand into the swatch when you change it to CMYK.
I found a solution by accident after frustrating slamming on the key of my keyboard & hit the delete key.
Just delete the extra digit that you don’t want.
For example, when you typed in 556, you got 7556, just delete 7 & it will take you directly to PMS 556.
Pantone has reprinted the whole PMS in 2012, and extended with new 336 color in 2012 ( Drupa) . The new swatches Pantone Plus C, Pantone Plus U were printed stockpaper with OBA. The ink thicknesses were unified also, chromatically ordered. All of the samples were measured spectral, and calculated CIELAB D50, 2 degree. They have used Spectroeye with XRGA reference calibration, that calculate some different LAB values compare to SpectroEye original on same sample. THESE NEW less or more different values are stored in the Pantone + C, U+ digital swatchbook respectively. Why are different values in cmyk separation? Thanks for the OBA in substrate, the modified ink thicknesses, the different calibrated device the new reference CIELAB values less or more deviate from obsolote PMS. PMS Pantone 106C is not exactly same as Pantone+ 106C. Of course those different CIELAB values evantaute different CMYK tint values used same characterization or color profile. Pantone communicated the pros of the Plus system, but didn’t explain the the changes behind the scenes.
I’m curious why would you not recommend it?: It’s called Pantone Plus color libraries, and instructs Illustrator (and InDesign) users how to replace the newer Lab-based Pantone libraries with the older CMYK-based ones. (I would never recommend that personally
I’ve been doing this since 1986, and have gone through a few color library changes, but nothing as bad as this. The final mode of a job is almost always going to be cmyk or rgb, and those two will never match regardless of the color mode you’re working in.
I’ve had several unbelievable color conversions using lab, including one conversion that had a 30 percent differential in magenta. The orange (the client’s brand color) turned to vivid red. And this is one of many examples.
I’ve never had a problem with the Pantone books not displaying a 3 digit swatch. Perhaps it got fixed…?
For instance, when I want to use the Solid coated swatch: 539. Yes it defaults to 5395. But I just type 539 and put space and voila, it goes to 539…
Hello
the Pantone Plus color libraries link doesn’t work and I don’t see it in the Adobe page.
I found an easier workaround. I created a box in illustrator filled it with spot 541 and saved as ai file. When I placed in the document, 541 popped into my swatches.
Hi, hope someone can help me with a frustrating problem. I have lost the ability to alter the CMYK values of a swatch. On my other mac I can double click the swatch and it opens up a panel showing the CMYK sliders which I can change at will. For some reason now when I double click the swatch it just gives me the Pantone options. The only way I can get around this is to select the swatch and create a new swatch which will then give me the CMYK sliders.
It seems I have it on a setting that I don’t know how to change.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards Gary
Maybe the swatch you want to edit is in a placed graphic?
Can you delete the swatch or is the “trash can” grayed out in the swatches panel for that swatch?
(You cannot edit or delete swatches that are used in a graphic).
If it is in a graphic, you’ll have to make a new swatch or edit the swatch in the graphic file.
Hi Bret, unfortunately not. Even when I set up a new job the problem still exists. I have found that I used to be able to edit swatches that are currently being used in a graphic. This is vey useful if you feel that a colour is wrong in a document and you need to change all the references of that colour.
I have an identical imac at home and I can edit all my swatches using the cmyk sliders. Not sure what has happened to this machine. I must have clicked some kind of preference somewhere but I cannot find it.
Would be grateful for any other thoughts.
I deal with this nonsense everyday. If you start by typing ‘PANTONE ‘ and then the number it will go the color you want not default to something else.
Ran into this problem today with Pantone 583 Uncoated. It defaults to 5835 even when I try to delete that last “5”. I am using InDesign 2015.
I did as someone suggested years ago and typed in “58” and moved the arrow down. It took a long time and I finally found it. So nope it’s 2016 and it’s not fixed yet.